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April 27, 2002

ÇJ_ : Have any of you visited the submissives creed on the website?

missmaggie9458 : yes CJ Sir

¤ålýgïrl¤ : i do not think that i have read that one yet CJ Sir

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : yes I have CJ Sir..

ĵuniorsnot : no Sir

splendid_one_1 : no Sir

splendid_one_1 : wb Tony Sir

ÇJ_ : if you haven't looked at the creed, why not take a moment, go give it a quick look over, we're gonna talk a bit about that this evening,, what it means,,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : yes Sir..

ÇJ_ : http://www.asubmissivesjourney.com/creed.html will take you directly there,

¤ålýgïrl¤ : brb going to look

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : printing it out now Sir..thank You

ÇJ_ waits for everyone to come back,,

splendid_one_1 : im back all printed and ready to go Sir

ÇJ_ : ty splendid,

ĵuniorsnot : ok back

¤little_pet¤«Chance» : back too

TONYSBUS : back

ÇJ_ : couple more to go,,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : me too

missmaggie9458 : im back too

¤little_pet¤«Chance» : wbaly

¤ålýgïrl¤ : got it printed out CJ Sir

ÇJ_ : maggie, you back?

missmaggie9458 : yes Sir

TONYSBUS : subbie i printed it

ÇJ_ : looks like that's about everyone, now, I see most printed it, but did you read it?

¤ålýgïrl¤ : reading it now Sir

ÇJ_ : Any one care to guess what the first important word in that creed is?

TONYSBUS : communicate

¤little_pet¤«Chance» : Honesty

ÇJ_ : close,,

¤ålýgïrl¤ : Honesty

ÇJ_ : the first important word in the sub's creed is "i"

ÇJ_ : I, meaning you..

ĵuniorsnot : communicate with honesty my needs

splendid_one_1 : wb Sir

ÇJ_ : you have to understand,, the reason "i" is important,, in following this creed, it is you that is agreeing to live up to what this creed says,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : and strive to learn to please my Master

ÇJ_ : there isn't anyone going to do it for you,, your Master/Dom can't do it for you, it's something that you have to do..

¤Chance_101 : it stands for you, the submissive

ÇJ_ : if you can't do this, then there is no sense in even tryig to go furhter,

ÇJ_ : what's the next important word?

ÇJ_ : anyone want to guess?

splendid_one_1 : honesty Sir?

ÇJ_ : I'll make it easy,, it's "will",,,,

ÇJ_ : putting it in context,, you are saying that you "will" do these things,,, you are committing yourself to doing these things,

¤Chance_101 : I will serve and please My Master to the best of my ability, yes I will

ÇJ_ : that's a commitment, not only to your Dom, but to yourself as well.

ÇJ_ : before you can begin to make a commitment to a Dom, you have to be able to make a commitment to yourself,, don't forget that,

ÇJ_ : so, the creed starts off with "i will",, that's your commitment,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : i will

ÇJ_ : the very next thing it goes to is communicate...

ÇJ_ : I think everyone has heard Me talk about the importance of communication in this lifestyle..

¤ålýgïrl¤ : yes CJ Sir

splendid_one_1 : yes Sir?

ÇJ_ : you have to be able to communicate,, and, when you do communicate, it has to be with complete honesty and openness..

ÇJ_ : What type of things are you agreeing to communicate with this creed?

¤Chance_101 : with out communication, two people will not learn or grow together

¤ålýgïrl¤ : your wants and needs and limits... just about everything Sir

ÇJ_ : in a nut shell, yes, just about anything,,,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : thats right aly sis..

¤Chance_101 : everything must be honestly communicated

ÇJ_ : and it's important that you do, without that communication, a lot of misunderstandings can develop,,

StormForcer : Honest communication = totally against human nature... go figure

splendid_one_1 : i think that honesty is very important in comunication

ÇJ_ : without the proper understanding, you may find yourself having to live up to expectations that you can't achieve,,

ÇJ_ : How can you expect a Dom to know that you're feet are sore if you don't tell Him?

ÇJ_ : communication, it's important,,

iccara_SirFred : i agree with the communication.. veryu important in any relationship

¤ålýgïrl¤ : yes i also agree Sir

ÇJ_ : so important, it's outlined in the creed as one of the things you are agreeing to do,

splendid_one_1 : what if you feel that you want your limits pushed?

¤Chance_101 : I will communicate

StormForcer finds subs whining under their breath about doing something tends to be a REALLY good sign of something wrong

ÇJ_ “failing to do so will not only prevent my Master and I from having the best experience possible, but can also lead to physical and emotional harm”

ÇJ_ : remember that,, it's important!

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : yes CJ Sir..i can see that could very well happen

ÇJ_ : next thing the creed says,,, "I will not try to manipulate my Master",, anyone want to try and explain what that means and why it's there?

vonnie807777 : is that controlling from the bottom????????? as in me bein bad 'cause i want a spankin?

ÇJ_ : yes, that's part of it,

ÇJ_ : anyone else want to try that one? what are some example of why you shouldn't manipulate your Master?

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : thats tough CJ..

StormForcer : because the master will feel a little put out by a sub that runs rings around him?

So•Subnoxious™ : because if you manipulate, you aren't submitting, you're setting your own "rules" in an indirect way that isn't forthright

ĵuniorsnot : manipulation wears down trust factors, regardless of who is manipulating

Wstemptress0 : ty Sheltered

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : you may embarrass him?

¤ålýgïrl¤ : that is very tough Sir

ÇJ_ : a good answer so sub,, but,,

vonnie807777 : because He doesnt like it................

ÇJ_ : more importantly, by trying to manipulate your Master, aren't you setting false expectations for both of you?

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : beacuse it would try His patience and cause tension in the relationship.. not to mention the trust and respect factor

So•Subnoxious™ : that and it's also a way of getting what you want without communicating i think

ÇJ_ : wouldn't your manipulation be identifying false needs?

¤ålýgïrl¤ : ahh yes Sir it would

splendid_one_1 : very true ss

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : if you are manipulating..you havent been truthful to yourself..

StormForcer : as for false expectations.... no, not really, it just moves the goalposts, so how can you expect to get what you truly want?

So•Subnoxious™ : well manipulating would be trying to get something you want without the work

splendid_one_1 : interesting!

ÇJ_ : wouldn't manipulation imply being a bit deceitful? Why not by "communicating" discussing what it really is that a subbie wants,

StormForcer : many a dom and even sub has burned out due to the whole self concious issue of "Who is actually in control here?"

¤little_pet¤«Chance» : that's why open communication is important

¤ålýgïrl¤ : i believe that if a sub wants something she/he should talk about that with her Master not manipulate to get it.

vonnie807777 : i agree aly

ĵuniorsnot : couldnt manipulation be interpreted as a lie or dishonesty?

ÇJ_ : if a sub is open with her Dom, , and he is equally open with her, shouldn't these needs or wants be identified?

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : absolutely aly sis..

So•Subnoxious™ : that's how i see it.... as covering something up to get what you want

StormForcer : open communication is not a natural human trait, its not something you can expect

ÇJ_ : why can't you expect it?

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : why cover it up..if you trust and care for the One ?

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : that is also what a journal is good for.. getting even the embarassing and hard to say out..

ÇJ_ : shouldn't you strive to achieve it?

ÇJ_ : again, if you are following or trying to adhere to the subs creed, aren't you committing yourself to try to communicate as best you can?

StormForcer : umm, because its not a natural human trait, someone has to want to make the effort for honest communication

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : yes vixen sis..sometimes it is hard to say what you want/need/or feel

ÇJ_ : can't a Dom encourage that open and honest communication?

¤little_pet¤«Chance» : if trust and respect are in place , yes you can expected

ĵuniorsnot : now isnt that honest communication?

ÇJ_ : and remember, communication is a two way street,, it's not all one sided.

So•Subnoxious™ : why isn't honest communication a natural human trait?

vonnie807777 : ii think open communication is a must............and if you trust each other it should not be hard to be open

TONYSBUS : subbie why is it hard?

StormForcer : a dom rarely is able to exert that strength, the dom has to be able to identify when full communication has not been used before things go badly wrong

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : true vonnie sis..but it takes time for the trust to build..

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : why is it hard...good question Tony Sir..

ÇJ_ : hmm, not sure I understand what you mean that a Dom is rarely able to exert that strength,

TONYSBUS : and the answer is ??

ÇJ_ : being open can be hard, no one said it wasn't, especially if you've spent your life learning to be closed up,,

StormForcer : to overcome what is a natural trait

ÇJ_ : but,, no one said adapting to this lifestyle was going to be easy did they?

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : no CJ Sir..its not easy..

StormForcer : no one said people were going to make things harder than they really should be

So•Subnoxious™ : or easier

splendid_one_1 : no it sure isint CJ Sir

ÇJ_ : It can pretty much be a natural trait to sit back and enjoy the sunshine, yet we tend to overcome that and teach ourselves to go to work don't we?

ÇJ_ : We can overcome things if we put our minds to it,,

StormForcer : usually

TONYSBUS : cj i don't it hard to be open

splendid_one_1 : im trying!!

ÇJ_ : and yes, we may fail at times, or not succeed as much as we'd like, but, again, we do our best,, or at least we should do our best.

8submissivlynude277 has joined the conversation.

StormForcer : but is it really our best?

So•Subnoxious™ : that's only for the person doing it to decide

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : hello submissivlynude, THANX

ÇJ_ : who can answer that Strom? certainly not I,, or you.. each of us has to agree to ourselves what is our best.

StormForcer shrugs

ÇJ_ : The next thing you see on the creed,, "i will not push to make a scene go your way",,, anyone have any ideas why?

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : because you are not completely submitting if you are trying to control...?

ĵuniorsnot : because if it goes my way, im not allowing my Dom to broaden O/our horizons

ÇJ_ : that could be part of it,, anyone else want to try?

ĵuniorsnot : im keeping us in a box

¤ålýgïrl¤ : i believe that if a Dom and sub go into a relationship, then hopefully the Dom knows the subs weaknesses and can help her overcome them even if one of them is manipulation and

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : beacuase it gives the argument of who is really in control

ÇJ_ : Storm, how about you,, any ideas why?

So•Subnoxious™ : because that's the same as manipulation

ÇJ_ : not quite sosub,,

¤Chance_101 : she will not learn and expand her within her limits if she controls the scene and stays within her comfort zone

¤ålýgïrl¤ : i agree that making a scene go your way as a sub is also manipulation

ÇJ_ : don't we start touching on the issue of limits if we're talking about how far a scene should go?

ÇJ_ : whether those limits are the subs limits, or the Dom's limits.

StormForcer : I have many ideas, but the whole thing is that this is still the same rule as before, topping from the bottom etc etc

¤little_pet¤«Chance» You Master should be able to tell , by the look in your eyes , your breathing , how close you are to your limits

vonnie807777 : i do think its kind of manipulation, but i agree with Chance

StormForcer : yup

So•Subnoxious™ : ok but doesn't that kind of contradict the whole notion of limits?

TONYSBUS : cj doesn't this all come down to being honest open and communicate

StormForcer : as for limits, well get the two people together to discuss limits then apply the lower limits

So•Subnoxious™ : or are they not "pushing" but instead just knowns that aren't even approached?

ÇJ_ : well, let Me ask you this,, if you are the sub,, and the Dom is in control, how is it that you will know what to push for on a scene since you really don't know where the scene is going in the first place?

splendid_one_1 : so very true!

So•Subnoxious™ : well you know what not to push for, and in a way, that is pushing lol

¤ålýgïrl¤ nods in agreement

ĵuniorsnot : the sub should have a pretty good idea of the scene shouldnt she?

ÇJ_ : IF,, if you've been communicating as you should be, then you've been discussing with your Dom all along what your needs and wants are, haven't you? or at least you should have been, am I right?

¤Chance_101 : no she does not snot

So•Subnoxious™ : yes

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : yes Sir..

ÇJ_ : and if it's a two way communication, he's been discussing his thoughts with you?

splendid_one_1 : i think that a sub needs to communicate there limits befor scening

¤ålýgïrl¤ : i agree with splendid

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : yes Sir..

Freaky160 : yes i agree

¤little_pet¤«Chance» : yes Sir

ÇJ_ : before, during and after splendid,,

splendid_one_1 : that should be pary of everyday life

ÇJ_ : communication is an ongoing process in a D/s relationship.

splendid_one_1 : yes Sir i agree

¤Chance_101 : limits are prone to change constantly

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : absolutely Sir..

splendid_one_1 : my Dom knows my limits

splendid_one_1 : yes there for communication is very important

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ if the trust is complete, the sub would/should be able to just relax and enjoy a scene... yes? And if the trust isn't there, I (personally) wouldn't be doing a scene.. and part of trust is knowing that my Dom will respect my limits, but help me to grow.

Amy4u2002 : my Master is always in complete control

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : well said vixen sis..

missmaggie9458 : <---agrees with vix

¤ålýgïrl¤ : smiles yes vix

splendid_one_1 : very true vix

vonnie807777 : i want my limits pushed..............so i kinda like not knowing where the scene is going..just trusting him enough that it will not go further than what i can take

So•Subnoxious™ : that's all good under ideal circumstances vonnie

ÇJ_ : brings us back to communication,,,, if you've communicated, then he'll know exactly how far he can take you.

vonnie807777 : but i wouldnt do it under less than ideal circumstances..so thats just my point of view

Freaky160 : the wantabe subs should know if they are ready to be in control by a Master

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : and there are safety nets to fall back on in that regard..

splendid_one_1 : true vonnie but if you Dom know your limits the sub does not need to know where the scene is going

ÇJ_ : what about the next part,,, "i will not allow myself to be harmed or abused? anyone want to comment on that?

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : well...back to the limits..and communications before any scening begins Sir..

¤little_pet¤«Chance» : to know when to walk away from the relationship

vonnie807777 : being ables to say nope

Freaky160 : but there are two ways to go with that

Amy4u2002 : just let the master control the scene just have a safeword he or she should get carried away

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : 2 ways Freaky Sir?

So•Subnoxious™ : that and it's about respecting yourself...

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : abuse is abuse..

splendid_one_1 : not so true Amy

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : no 2 ways there

¤ålýgïrl¤ yes subbie it is

ÇJ_ : chuckles, not even going to touch on safewords tonight, lol

splendid_one_1 : what if your gaged?

Freaky160 : yes to be a true sub some times there is pain

vonnie807777 : keeping in consensual........

splendid_one_1 : gagged?

So•Subnoxious™ : is it talking about the Master/Dom abusing or someone else?

splendid_one_1 : sorry

åeternitati§ stares at what Freaky said

¤little_pet¤«Chance» smiles, how you going to say the safeword with a gad in your mouth , smiles

vonnie807777 : there is a difference between pain and abuse

TONYSBUS : hey frekie you are frekie

So•Subnoxious™ : cause if it's someone else, then it shows a lack of respect for yourself and as a result a lack of respect for the Master/Dom's "possession"

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : basically... I will watch out for myself, I will watch for red flags, I will point out somthing that doesn't seem right.....

Amy4u2002 : when gagged we use a hand single

illeasha_TheFranchise : hi all

Freaky160 : when a man or women gives them self to there Master or Mistress then they have to learn who is in control

ÇJ_ : I guess in talking about a sub allowing herself to be abuse, we have to consider the world "consensual"

¤little_pet¤«Chance» and when you tied to the bed , or bondage table

splendid_one_1 : yup

ÇJ_ : yes, a girl can give her consent to do things,, possibly even things that may harm her,,

ÇJ_ : but,,,,,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : i agree to a point Freaky Sir..however..there are limits..and control is just a word..

ÇJ_ : she has to understand, being in a D/s relationship does not mean that she is a doormat or a punching bag to be abused,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : it is controlled by the limits the sub sets...

ÇJ_ : she is not required to give her consent for these things,

Freaky160 : but a true Master knows never to go that far

ÇJ_ : yes, there are things a girl can do because she enjoys them, or that mutually, the Dom and the sub enjoy,

¤little_pet¤«Chance» : when he shows no respect , and places you in a situation that causes emotional or physical harm

ÇJ_ : but,, no, she never has to do something that she is against,, no, I'm not talking about doing dishes here,,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : lol..whew CJ Sir..

TONYSBUS : semi fi dd

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : fate worse than a spanking

Amy4u2002 : well if the Master is going to do ohysical harm to the sub or

is into Beatings well sorry thats not the lifstyle

Amy4u2002 : thats just sick

TONYSBUS : mmmmmm

ÇJ_ : exactly amy,,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé nods at amy in agreement

ÇJ_ : and that is the point that I'm trying to make,

ÇJ_ : what is good for one girl, may not be good or enjoyable for another,,

ÇJ_ : each D/s couple is different, recognize that difference,,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : and that is fine..I have no judgement for O/others likes and dislikes..

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ one person's pain, another person's pleasure, one person's trash is another's treasure...

ÇJ_ : just because someone does something, that does NOT mean that you have to do it,

Amy4u2002 : well event the most kinky D/S couple should never invole beatings and physical abuse

StormForcer : define beatings and physical abuse Amy

So•Subnoxious™ : "abuse" is a relative word

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : very true ss sis..

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : and yet again..thats where communication comes in..

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : anything without concent, physical or mental/emotional is abuse...

¤Chance_101 : is anything that is done consentually consider to be abuse?

ÇJ_ : oh, it can be,,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : as long as you know what you have consented to..

ÇJ_ : a fine line there Chance,,

So•Subnoxious™ : well but some people like stuff being done non-consentually... it's why they like rape scenes or whatever

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : i disagree sis..

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : you have consented to that type of scene..

StormForcer : they are consented to though Amy, its the whole idea of arranging a rape scene

So•Subnoxious™ : right but they like the idea of saying "no no" and meaning "Yes yes" and that can be misinterpreted

ÇJ_ : when you have a few minutes,, visit http://www.sexuality.org,, look up some of the articles on non-consensual consensuality,

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : the BDSM checklist can be considered a form of consent.. if one says "willing to do" on their checklist.. would that not be a form of consent?

StormForcer : true but then they know the risks, they consent to it

So•Subnoxious™ : right i just mean that sometimes people think that applies for everything and not just a particular scene

StormForcer : please define beatings for me Amy

ÇJ_ : sometimes I've seen girls agree to something only because they think they have to,,,, and that's where I'm going with this whole concept, you don't have to agree to anything until you are ready for it,, and truly agree.

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : honesty..

missmaggie9458 : and just because you give consent once doesnt mean the next time will be the same

ÇJ_ : okay, I think we've beat that one to death,, shall we move on a bit? what about "i will be responsive to my Master"? anyone know what that means, why it's there?

So•Subnoxious™ : cause Masters need feedback

StormForcer : not flipping the bird when he asks you to do something?

missmaggie9458 : my words exactly ss

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : I'm not going to leave my Master hanging...

ÇJ_ : feedback so sub,, yes, that's good, but, what other ways does it mean responsive?

¤Chance_101 : responsive...I will respond to his needs and wants

splendid_one_1 : saying "no" and "yes"

ĵuniorsnot : attentive to His needs as well

ÇJ_ : to respond to his needs and wants,, yes, a good one, any others?

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : I'm not going to just leave somthing unsaid or discussed....

ÇJ_ : attentive to his needs,,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : but to let him know the subs feelings as well..

ÇJ_ : can it also mean responsive to his directions and guidance?

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : yes Sir..

So•Subnoxious™ : yes

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : yep

¤Chance_101 : certainly

splendid_one_1 : yes Sir!

missmaggie9458 : absolutely Sir

ÇJ_ : guess it can mean a bit of all those things together, can't it?

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : responsive in all manners..yes Sir

ÇJ_ looks like that one can also tie right back into the big C word,, (communication)

¤Chance_101 : part of His needs and wants is that she grow and learn to be the very best submissive, as well as person that she possibly can be

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : CJ Sir..most everything leads back to communication

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : very important in this lifestyle...

ÇJ_ : Chance, that leads us right into the next paragraph,,

ÇJ_ : anyone want to try to summarize that paragraph into a couple of words?

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : i have one Sir

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : respect

ÇJ_ : listens,

ÇJ_ : respect,, a good word to fit that sub,,

ÇJ_ : but, respect for who?

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : the D/s relationship W/we have together

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : the sub and the Dom

ÇJ_ : ahh, another key word,, "together",

TONYSBUS : no yourself

ĵuniorsnot : respect for self and Him and the relationship

¤Chance_101 : respect for all until they prove unworthy

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : if you dont respect yourself..you cant respect another

TONYSBUS : respect yourself

ÇJ_ : not just you,, not just your Dom, but both of you together,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : exactly

ĵuniorsnot : i said...relationship

ÇJ_ : there always has to be a mutual respect,,

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : wb vonnie

ĵuniorsnot : it means both

ÇJ_ : like communication, that is also a two way deal.

ÇJ_ : okay,, and for the final paragraph, anyone have any thoughts?

ÇJ_ : what is the important thing in that paragraph?

ÇJ_ : or should I say, most important?

¤ålýgïrl¤ : i believe that means respect yourself and your Dom

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : mmmm

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : respect again Sir..

¤Chance_101 : I will be proud of My Master and being His

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : not be shameful..

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : be proud..of who you are..

ÇJ_ : respect, pride, honor,,

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : in the one...I will never think myself a submissive because I choose to submit on a different level than another....?

ÇJ_ : guess all three fit,

ĵuniorsnot : means im not a doormat

ÇJ_ : no, not just for yourself,, not just for your Dom,, not just for the two of you, but for the lifestyle in general..

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : no body should be a doormat whether D/s relationship or vanilla

¤little_pet¤«Chance» : respect for yourself and Your Master , be proud of who you are ,

¤ålýgïrl¤ : yes i agree CJ Sir

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : yes CJ Sir..perfect

ÇJ_ : be proud of who you are, and what you are,,

ÇJ_ : again, this lifestyle is not right for everyone,, don't even begin to think that, but,, if it's right for you, then be part of it, be proud of it,

¤Chance_101 : always walk with pride, yet always attempt to better yourself

ÇJ_ : don't ever hesitate to do something for yourself,, your Dom, or this lifestyle because you are ashamed of it,

ÇJ_ : be proud of what you are,, if you can't be proud of some aspect of this lifestyle, then you don't belong in that aspect,,

ĵuniorsnot : even if it might mean trying to educate a vanilla?

ÇJ_ : again,, as aly said, you're not a doormat,

ÇJ_ : no, you don't have to get up on the pulpit and try to preach to the masses..

So•Subnoxious™ : but don't forget you can be proud and discrete at the same time, if need be

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : that can be a difficult task snot sis..

ÇJ_ : be yourself,, be proud of yourself,,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : absolutely ss sis..

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ confidence is beauty

ÇJ_ : in doing that, you will bring pride to your Dom, your relationship and others around you.

ĵuniorsnot : i am proud of myself....

¤little_pet¤«Chance» : to many still confuse D/s with BDSM

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : we are all in different places in our lives..

ÇJ_ : does that make senes?

ÇJ_ : okay,, lets' see if we can't sum up what we've just spent the last hour talking about,,

ÇJ_ : let's see if we can't put one word on each of these paragraphs,

ÇJ_ : first one,,, what would that key word be?

So•Subnoxious™ : communication

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : Communication

¤little_pet¤«Chance» : I

¤ålýgïrl¤ : i

ÇJ_ : Communication,, bingo!

ÇJ_ : second paragraph?

ĵuniorsnot : education

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : we skipped that..

So•Subnoxious™ : a word for the second paragraph is "guidance"

ÇJ_ : education,, courtesy, communication, respect,, guess they'll all fit into that one,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : educate

ÇJ_ : and yes, guidance will fit loosely also..

ÇJ_ : thrid paragraph?

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : respect

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : communication

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : communication

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : and respect

ĵuniorsnot : being open

¤ålýgïrl¤ : communication and respect

ÇJ_ : communication, respect,, yes, I'd say they'd both fit,

ÇJ_ : 4th paragraph?

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : pride, honor...

ÇJ_ : pride,, a good word there vix,

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : mutual respect

ĵuniorsnot : dignity

MstrB1 : I thought third paragraph was responsive?

ÇJ_ : honor, respect, dignity, trust,

ÇJ_ : responsive,,

ÇJ_ : yes, I'd say all of those would fit, ,

TONYSBUS : hey cj three words to this creed communicate/honestly and respect

ÇJ_ : and the last paragraph?

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : honor

¤ålýgïrl¤ : honor

ĵuniorsnot : honor

ÇJ_ : actually, a fourth tony,, will get it in a moment,

MstrB1 : Subbie does not mean subhuman

ÇJ_ : honor,, doesn't mean subhuman,,,

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ Consider D/s as an old wagon wheel with four spokes, each spoke has a name, trust, communication, respect and honesty, if even one spoke is damaged or incomplete, the wheel would not be able to roll properly….

ÇJ_ : hmm,,, so, if I sum up all those words,, I wonder if it would fit on

vix's wheel,, you'll have to take a peek and see what you think,,

http://www.asubmissivesjourney.com/wheel.html

ÇJ_ : now, I have to ask,, any of you girls think you couldn't try to live

by this creed?

§heltered_vixen_ÇJ : try being the key word.. yes, I could...

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : its my desire to Sir..

So•Subnoxious™ : i could try if i knew it was being reciprocated

vonnie807777 : lol vix..............my thoughts exactly

ĵuniorsnot : of course

¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : they are all honorable desires..

¤µnƒlãwëdºgëm¤Mo§¤ : 30/f/fl

ÇJ_ : key words are the first two vix,,,,, not I could,, but,, I WILL

¤ålýgïrl¤ : i believe with the right Master/Dom i could try Sir

At this point, the conversation tended to drift off to other topics and

general chat. Thank you to all that participated in this discussion.

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