A submissives journey

 

 

 

Chapter 1
The Asj Community

 


 

Chapter 2
Resource Information 

 

 

 

 

Chapter 3
Subbie's Couch


 

 

Chapter 4
The Dom's Lounge

 


 

Chapter 5

 The Library

 

 

 

 

 

Chapter 6
BDSM

 

 

 

 

Chapter 7

 Useful Links

 

 

 

 

 

Chapter 8
Members share their thoughts

 

 

 

 

Chapter 9

 Members Only

 

 

 

 

 

Chapter 10
Asj's Site Index

 

 

 

Chapter 11
Asj's Online Store

 

 

 

Chapter 12
Recommended Reading List

 

 

 

Chapter 13
Asj slave, sub Registry

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The Submissives Creed

     

     

     

    Did you know, the Asj Community hosts Lifestyle Classes and Discussions here online every Sunday and Wednesday evening at 9:00 pm Eastern Time.  The Classes and Discussions are open to all and Free to attend.  Visit our Members Only Pages for more information, or click any of our Member/Visitor Support"  icons to ask for more information.

     

 April 27,  2002

                           

     J_ : Have any of you visited the submissives creed on the website?

     missmaggie9458 : yes CJ Sir

     lgrl : i do not think that i have read that one yet CJ Sir

     sblmlsbb : yes I have CJ Sir..

     ĵuniorsnot : no Sir

     splendid_one_1 : no Sir

     splendid_one_1 : wb Tony Sir

     J_ : if you haven't looked at the creed, why not take a moment, go give it a quick look over, we're gonna talk a bit about that this evening,, what it means,,

     sblmlsbb : yes Sir..

     J_ : http://www.asubmissivesjourney.com/creed.html will take you directly there,

     lgrl : brb going to look

     sblmlsbb : printing it out now Sir..thank You

     J_ waits for everyone to come back,,

     splendid_one_1 : im back all printed and ready to go Sir

     J_ : ty splendid,

     ĵuniorsnot : ok back

     little_petChance : back too

     TONYSBUS : back

     J_ : couple more to go,,

     sblmlsbb : me too 

     missmaggie9458 : im back too

     little_petChance : wbaly

     lgrl : got it printed out CJ Sir

     J_ : maggie, you back?

     missmaggie9458 : yes Sir

     TONYSBUS : subbie i printed it

     J_ : looks like that's about everyone,  now, I see most printed it, but did you read it?

     lgrl : reading it now Sir

     J_ : Any one care to guess what the first important word in that creed is?

     TONYSBUS : communicate

     little_petChance : Honesty

     J_ : close,,

     lgrl : Honesty

     J_ : the first important word in the sub's creed is "i"

     J_ : I, meaning you..

     ĵuniorsnot : communicate with honesty my needs

     splendid_one_1 : wb Sir

     J_ : you have to understand,, the reason "i" is important,, in following this creed, it is you that is agreeing to live up to what this creed says,

     sblmlsbb : and strive to learn to please my Master

     J_ : there isn't anyone going to do it for you,, your Master/Dom can't do it for you, it's something that you have to do..

     Chance_101 : it stands for you,  the submissive

     J_ : if you can't do this, then there is no sense in even tryig to go furhter,

     J_ : what's the next important word?

     J_ : anyone want to guess?

     splendid_one_1 : honesty Sir?

     J_ : I'll make it easy,, it's "will",,,,

     J_ : putting it in context,, you are saying that you "will" do these things,,, you are committing yourself to doing these things,

     Chance_101 : I will serve and please My Master to the best of my ability,  yes     I will

     J_ : that's a commitment, not only to your Dom, but to yourself as well.

     J_ : before you can begin to make a commitment to a Dom, you have to be able to make a commitment to yourself,, don't forget that,

     J_ : so, the creed starts off with "i will",, that's your commitment,

     sblmlsbb : i will

     J_ : the very next thing it goes to is communicate...

     J_ : I think everyone has heard Me talk about the importance of communication in this lifestyle..

     lgrl : yes CJ Sir

     splendid_one_1 : yes Sir?

     J_ : you have to be able to communicate,,  and, when you do communicate, it has to be with complete honesty and openness..

     J_ : What type of things are you agreeing to communicate with this creed?

     Chance_101 : with out communication, two people will not learn or grow together

     lgrl : your wants and needs and limits... just about everything Sir

     J_ : in a nut shell, yes, just about anything,,,

     sblmlsbb : thats right aly sis..

     Chance_101 : everything must be honestly communicated

     J_ : and it's important that you do, without that communication, a lot of misunderstandings can develop,,

     StormForcer : Honest communication = totally against human nature... go figure

     splendid_one_1 : i think that honesty is very important in comunication

     J_ : without the proper understanding, you may find yourself having to live up to expectations that you can't achieve,,

     J_ : How can you expect a Dom to know that you're feet are sore if you don't tell Him?

     J_ : communication, it's important,,

     iccara_SirFred : i agree with the communication.. veryu important in any relationship

     lgrl : yes i also agree Sir

     J_ : so important, it's outlined in the creed as one of the things you are agreeing to do,

     splendid_one_1 : what if you feel that you want your limits pushed?

     Chance_101 : I will communicate

     StormForcer finds subs whining under their breath about doing something tends to be a REALLY good sign of something wrong

     J_  failing to do so will not only prevent my Master and I from having the best experience possible, but can also lead to physical and emotional harm

     J_ : remember that,, it's important!

     sblmlsbb : yes CJ Sir..i can see that could very well happen

     J_ : next thing the creed says,,, "I will not try to manipulate my Master",, anyone want to try and explain what that means and why it's there?

     vonnie807777 : is that controlling from the bottom????????? as in me bein bad 'cause i want a spankin?

     J_ : yes, that's part of it,

     J_ : anyone else want to try that one?      what are some example of why you shouldn't manipulate your Master?

     sblmlsbb : thats tough CJ..

     StormForcer : because the master will feel a little put out by a sub that runs rings around him?

     SoSubnoxious : because if you manipulate, you aren't submitting, you're setting your own "rules" in an indirect way that isn't forthright

     ĵuniorsnot : manipulation wears down trust factors, regardless of who is manipulating

     Wstemptress0 : ty Sheltered

     sblmlsbb : you may embarrass him?

     lgrl : that is very tough Sir

     J_ : a good answer so sub,, but,,

     vonnie807777 : because He doesnt like it................

     J_ : more importantly, by trying to manipulate your Master, aren't you setting false expectations for both of you?

     heltered_vixen_J : beacuse it would try His patience and cause tension in the relationship.. not to mention the trust and respect factor

     SoSubnoxious : that and it's also a way of getting what you want without communicating i think

     J_ : wouldn't your manipulation be identifying false needs?

     lgrl : ahh yes Sir it would

     splendid_one_1 : very true ss

     sblmlsbb : if you are manipulating..you havent been truthful to yourself..

     StormForcer : as for false expectations.... no, not really, it just moves the goalposts, so how can you expect to get what you truly want?

     SoSubnoxious : well manipulating would be trying to get something you want without the work

     splendid_one_1 : interesting!

     J_ : wouldn't manipulation imply being a bit deceitful?  Why not by "communicating" discussing what it really is that a subbie wants,

     StormForcer : many a dom and even sub has burned out due to the whole self concious issue of "Who is actually in control here?"

     little_petChance : that's why open communication is important

     lgrl : i believe that if a sub wants something she/he should talk about that with her Master not manipulate to get it.

     vonnie807777 : i agree aly

     ĵuniorsnot : couldnt manipulation be interpreted as a lie or dishonesty?

     J_ : if a sub is open with her Dom, , and he is equally open with her, shouldn't these needs or wants be identified?

     sblmlsbb : absolutely  aly sis..

     SoSubnoxious : that's how i see it.... as covering something up to get what you want

     StormForcer : open communication is not a natural human trait, its not something you can expect

     J_ : why can't you expect it?

     sblmlsbb : why cover it up..if you trust and care for the One ?

     heltered_vixen_J : that is also what a journal is good for.. getting even the embarassing and hard to say out..

     J_ : shouldn't you strive to achieve it?

     J_ : again, if you are following or trying to adhere to the subs creed, aren't you committing yourself to try to communicate as best you can?

     StormForcer : umm, because its not a natural human trait, someone has to want to make the effort for honest communication

     sblmlsbb : yes vixen sis..sometimes it is hard to say what you want/need/or feel

     J_ : can't a Dom encourage that open and honest communication?

     little_petChance : if trust and respect are in place , yes you can expected

     ĵuniorsnot : now isnt that honest communication?

     J_ : and remember, communication is a two way street,, it's not all one sided.

     SoSubnoxious : why isn't honest communication a natural human trait?

     vonnie807777 : ii think open communication is a must............and if you trust each other it should not be hard to be open

     TONYSBUS : subbie why is it hard?

     StormForcer : a dom rarely is able to exert that strength, the dom has to be able to identify when full communication has not been used before things go badly wrong

     sblmlsbb : true vonnie sis..but it takes time for the trust to build..

     sblmlsbb : why is it hard...good question Tony Sir..

     J_ : hmm, not sure I understand what you mean that a Dom is rarely able to exert that strength,

     TONYSBUS : and the answer is ??

     J_ : being open can be hard, no one said it wasn't, especially if you've spent your life learning to be closed up,,

     StormForcer : to overcome what is a natural trait

     J_ : but,, no one said adapting to this lifestyle was going to be easy did they?

     sblmlsbb : no CJ Sir..its not easy..

     StormForcer : no one said people were going to make things harder than they really should be

     SoSubnoxious : or easier

     splendid_one_1 : no it sure isint CJ Sir

     J_ : It can pretty much be a natural trait to sit back and enjoy the sunshine, yet we tend to overcome that and teach ourselves to go to work don't we?

     J_ : We can overcome things if we put our minds to it,,

     StormForcer : usually

     TONYSBUS : cj i don't it hard to be open

     splendid_one_1 : im trying!!

     J_ : and yes, we may fail at times, or not succeed as much as we'd like, but, again, we do our best,, or at least we should do our best.

8submissivlynude277 has joined the conversation.

     StormForcer : but is it really our best?

     SoSubnoxious : that's only for the person doing it to decide

     heltered_vixen_J : hello submissivlynude, THANX

     J_ : who can answer that Strom?  certainly not I,, or you.. each of us has to agree to ourselves what is our best.

     StormForcer shrugs

      J_ : The next thing you see on the creed,, "i will not push to make a scene go your way",,, anyone have any ideas why?

     sblmlsbb : because you are not completely submitting if you are trying to control...?

     ĵuniorsnot : because if it goes my way, im not allowing my Dom to broaden O/our horizons

     J_ : that could be part of it,, anyone else want to try?

     ĵuniorsnot : im keeping us in a box

     lgrl : i believe that if a Dom and sub go into a relationship, then hopefully the Dom knows the subs weaknesses and can help her overcome them even if one of them is manipulation and

     heltered_vixen_J : beacuase it gives the argument of who is really in control

     J_ : Storm,  how about you,, any ideas why?

     SoSubnoxious : because that's the same as manipulation

     J_ : not quite sosub,,

           Chance_101 : she will not learn and expand her within her limits if she controls the scene and stays within her comfort zone

     lgrl : i agree that making a scene go your way as a sub is also manipulation

     J_ : don't we start touching on the issue of limits if we're talking about how far a scene should go?

     J_ : whether those limits are the subs limits, or the Dom's limits.

     StormForcer : I have many ideas, but the whole thing is that this is still the same rule as before, topping from the bottom etc etc

     little_petChance You Master should be able to tell , by the look in your eyes , your breathing , how close you are to your limits

     vonnie807777 : i do think its kind of manipulation, but i agree with Chance

     StormForcer : yup

     SoSubnoxious : ok but doesn't that kind of contradict the whole notion of limits?

     TONYSBUS : cj doesn't this all come down to being honest open and communicate

     StormForcer : as for limits, well get the two people together to discuss limits then apply the lower limits

     SoSubnoxious : or are they not "pushing" but instead just knowns that aren't even approached?

     J_ : well, let Me ask you this,,  if you are the sub,, and the Dom is in control, how is it that you will know what to push for on a scene since you really don't know where the scene is going in the first place?

     splendid_one_1 : so very true!

     SoSubnoxious : well you know what not to push for, and in a way, that is pushing lol

     lgrl nods in agreement

     ĵuniorsnot : the sub should have a pretty good idea of the scene shouldnt she?

     J_ : IF,,   if you've been communicating as you should be, then you've been discussing with your Dom all along what your needs and wants are, haven't you?  or at least you should have been, am I right?

     Chance_101 : no she does not snot

     SoSubnoxious : yes

     sblmlsbb : yes Sir..

     J_ : and if it's a two way communication, he's been discussing his thoughts with you?

     splendid_one_1 : i think that a sub needs to communicate there limits befor scening

     lgrl : i agree with splendid

     sblmlsbb : yes Sir..

     Freaky160 : yes i agree

     little_petChance : yes Sir

     J_ : before, during and after splendid,,

     splendid_one_1 : that should be pary of everyday life

     J_ : communication is an ongoing process in a D/s relationship.

     splendid_one_1 : yes Sir i agree

     Chance_101 : limits are prone to change constantly

     sblmlsbb : absolutely Sir..

     splendid_one_1 : my Dom knows my limits

     splendid_one_1 : yes there for communication is very important

     heltered_vixen_J if the trust is complete, the sub would/should be able to just relax and enjoy a scene... yes? And if the trust isn't there, I (personally) wouldn't be doing a scene.. and part of trust is knowing that my Dom will respect my limits, but help me to grow.

     Amy4u2002 : my Master is always in complete control

     sblmlsbb : well said vixen sis..

     missmaggie9458 : <---agrees with vix

     lgrl : smiles yes vix

     splendid_one_1 : very true vix

     vonnie807777 : i want my limits pushed..............so i kinda like not knowing where the scene is going..just trusting him enough that it will not go further than what i can take

     SoSubnoxious : that's all good under ideal circumstances vonnie

     J_ : brings us back to communication,,,,     if you've communicated, then he'll know exactly how far he can take you.

     vonnie807777 : but i wouldnt do it under less than ideal circumstances..so thats just my point of view

     Freaky160 : the wantabe subs should know if they are ready to be in control by a Master

     sblmlsbb : and there are safety nets to fall back on in that regard..

     splendid_one_1 : true vonnie but if you Dom know your limits the sub does not need to know where the scene is going

     J_ : what about the next part,,, "i will not allow myself to be harmed or abused?  anyone want to comment on that?

     sblmlsbb : well...back to the limits..and communications before any scening begins Sir..

     little_petChance : to know when to walk away from the relationship

     vonnie807777 : being ables to say nope

     Freaky160 : but there are two ways to go with that

     Amy4u2002 : just let the master control the scene just have a safeword he or she should get carried away

     sblmlsbb : 2 ways Freaky Sir?

     SoSubnoxious : that and it's about respecting yourself...

     sblmlsbb : abuse is abuse..

     splendid_one_1 : not so true Amy

     sblmlsbb : no 2 ways there

     lgrl yes subbie it is

     J_ : chuckles, not even going to touch on safewords tonight, lol

     splendid_one_1 : what if your gaged?

     Freaky160 : yes to be a true sub some times there is pain

     vonnie807777 : keeping in consensual........

     splendid_one_1 : gagged?

     SoSubnoxious : is it talking about the Master/Dom abusing or someone else?

     splendid_one_1 : sorry

     eternitati stares at what Freaky said

     little_petChance smiles, how you going to say the safeword with a gad in your mouth  , smiles

     vonnie807777 : there is a difference between pain and abuse

     TONYSBUS : hey frekie you are frekie

     SoSubnoxious : cause if it's someone else, then it shows a lack of respect for yourself and as a result a lack of respect for the Master/Dom's "possession"

     heltered_vixen_J : basically... I will watch out for myself, I will watch for red flags, I will point out somthing that doesn't seem right.....

     Amy4u2002 : when gagged we use a hand single

     illeasha_TheFranchise : hi all

     Freaky160 : when a man or women gives them self to there Master or Mistress then they have to learn who is in control

     J_ : I guess in talking about a sub allowing herself to be abuse, we have to consider the world "consensual"

     little_petChance and when  you tied to the bed , or bondage table

     splendid_one_1 : yup

     J_ : yes, a girl can give her consent to do things,, possibly even things that may harm her,,

     J_ : but,,,,,

     sblmlsbb : i agree to a point Freaky Sir..however..there are limits..and control is just a word..

     J_ : she has to understand,  being in a D/s relationship does not mean that she is a doormat or a punching bag to be abused,

     sblmlsbb : it is controlled by the limits the sub sets...

     J_ : she is not required to give her consent for these things,

     Freaky160 : but a true Master knows never to go that far

     J_ : yes, there are things a girl can do because she enjoys them, or that mutually, the Dom and the sub enjoy,

     little_petChance : when he shows no respect , and places you in a situation that causes emotional or physical harm

     J_ : but,, no, she never has to do something that she is against,,  no, I'm not talking about doing dishes here,,

     sblmlsbb : lol..whew CJ Sir..

     TONYSBUS : semi fi dd

     sblmlsbb : fate worse than a spanking

    Amy4u2002 : well if the Master is going to do ohysical harm to the sub or 

      is into  Beatings well sorry thats not the lifstyle

     Amy4u2002 : thats just sick

     TONYSBUS : mmmmmm

     J_ : exactly amy,,

     sblmlsbb nods at amy in agreement

     J_ : and that is the point that I'm trying to make,

     J_ : what is good for one girl, may not be good or enjoyable for another,,

     J_ : each D/s couple is different, recognize that difference,,

     sblmlsbb : and that is fine..I have no judgement for O/others likes and dislikes..

     heltered_vixen_J one person's pain, another person's pleasure, one person's trash is another's treasure...

     J_ : just because someone does something, that does NOT mean that you have to do it,

     Amy4u2002 : well event the most kinky D/S couple should never invole beatings and physical abuse

     StormForcer : define beatings and physical abuse Amy

     SoSubnoxious : "abuse" is a relative word

     sblmlsbb : very true ss sis..

     sblmlsbb : and yet again..thats where communication comes in..

     heltered_vixen_J : anything without concent, physical or mental/emotional is abuse...

     Chance_101 : is anything that is done consentually consider to be abuse?

     J_ : oh, it can be,,

     sblmlsbb : as long as you know what you have consented to..

     J_ : a fine line there Chance,,

     SoSubnoxious : well but some people like stuff being done non-consentually... it's why they like rape scenes or whatever

     sblmlsbb : i disagree sis..

     sblmlsbb : you have consented to that type of scene..

     StormForcer : they are consented to though Amy, its the whole idea of arranging a rape scene

     SoSubnoxious : right but they like the idea of saying "no no" and meaning "Yes yes" and that can be misinterpreted

     J_ : when you have a few minutes,, visit http://www.sexuality.org,,   look up some of the articles on non-consensual consensuality,

     heltered_vixen_J : the BDSM checklist can be considered a form of consent.. if one says "willing to do" on their checklist.. would that not be a form of consent?

     StormForcer : true but then they know the risks, they consent to it

     SoSubnoxious : right i just mean that sometimes people think that applies for everything and not just a particular scene

     StormForcer : please define beatings for me Amy

     J_ : sometimes I've seen girls agree to something only because they think they have to,,,,  and that's where I'm going with this whole concept, you don't have to agree to anything until you are ready for it,, and truly agree.

     heltered_vixen_J : honesty..

     missmaggie9458 : and just because you give consent once doesnt mean the next time will be the same

     J_ : okay, I think we've beat that one to death,, shall we move on a bit?  what about "i will be responsive to my Master"?  anyone know what that means, why it's there?

     SoSubnoxious : cause Masters need feedback

     StormForcer : not flipping the bird when he asks you to do something?

     missmaggie9458 : my words exactly ss

     heltered_vixen_J : I'm not going to leave my Master hanging...

     J_ : feedback so sub,, yes, that's good, but, what other ways does it mean responsive?

     Chance_101 : responsive...I will respond to his needs and wants

     splendid_one_1 : saying "no" and "yes"

     ĵuniorsnot : attentive to His needs as well

     J_ : to respond to his needs and wants,, yes, a good one,   any others?

     heltered_vixen_J : I'm not going to just leave somthing unsaid or discussed....

     J_ : attentive to his needs,,

     sblmlsbb : but to let him know the subs feelings as well..

     J_ : can it also mean responsive to his directions and guidance?

     sblmlsbb : yes Sir..

     SoSubnoxious : yes

     heltered_vixen_J : yep

     Chance_101 : certainly

     splendid_one_1 : yes Sir!

     missmaggie9458 : absolutely Sir

     J_ : guess it can mean a bit of all those things together, can't it?

     sblmlsbb : responsive in all manners..yes Sir

     J_ looks like that one can also tie right back into the big C word,, (communication)

     Chance_101 : part of His needs and wants is that she grow and learn to be the very best submissive, as well as person that she possibly can be

     sblmlsbb : CJ Sir..most everything leads back to communication

     sblmlsbb : very important in this lifestyle...

     J_ : Chance, that leads us right into the next paragraph,,

     J_ : anyone want to try to summarize that paragraph into a couple of words?

     sblmlsbb : i have one Sir

     sblmlsbb : respect

     J_ : listens,

     J_ : respect,, a good word to fit that sub,,

     J_ : but, respect for who?

     sblmlsbb : the D/s relationship W/we have together

     sblmlsbb : the sub and the Dom

     J_ : ahh, another key word,, "together",

     TONYSBUS : no yourself

     ĵuniorsnot : respect for self and Him and the relationship

     Chance_101 : respect for all until they prove unworthy

     sblmlsbb : if you dont respect yourself..you cant respect another

     TONYSBUS : respect yourself

     J_ : not just you,, not just your Dom, but both of you together,

     sblmlsbb : exactly

     ĵuniorsnot : i said...relationship

     J_ : there always has to be a mutual respect,,

     heltered_vixen_J : wb vonnie

     ĵuniorsnot : it means both

     J_ : like communication, that is also a two way deal.

     J_ : okay,, and for the final paragraph, anyone have any thoughts?

     J_ : what is the important thing in that paragraph?

     J_ : or should I say, most important?

     lgrl : i believe that means respect yourself and your Dom

     sblmlsbb : mmmm

     sblmlsbb : respect again Sir..

     Chance_101 : I will be proud of My Master and being His

     sblmlsbb : not be shameful..

     sblmlsbb : be proud..of who you are..

     J_ : respect, pride, honor,,

     heltered_vixen_J : in the one...I will never think myself a submissive because I choose to submit on a different level than another....?

     J_ : guess all three fit,

     ĵuniorsnot : means im not a doormat

     J_ : no, not just for yourself,, not just for your Dom,, not just for the two of you, but for the lifestyle in general..

     sblmlsbb : no body should be a doormat  whether D/s relationship or vanilla

     little_petChance : respect for yourself and Your Master , be proud of who you are ,

     lgrl : yes i agree CJ Sir

     sblmlsbb : yes CJ Sir..perfect

     J_ : be proud of who you are, and what you are,,

     J_ : again, this lifestyle is not right for everyone,, don't even begin to think that, but,, if it's right for you, then be part of it, be proud of it,

     Chance_101 : always walk with pride, yet always attempt to better yourself

     J_ : don't ever hesitate to do something for yourself,, your Dom, or this lifestyle because you are ashamed of it,

     J_ : be proud of what you are,, if you can't be proud of some aspect of this lifestyle, then you don't belong in that aspect,,

     ĵuniorsnot : even if it might mean trying to educate a vanilla?

     J_ : again,, as aly said, you're not a doormat,

     J_ : no, you don't have to get up on the pulpit and try to preach to the masses..

     SoSubnoxious : but don't forget you can be proud and discrete at the same time, if need be

     sblmlsbb : that can be a difficult task snot sis..

     J_ : be yourself,, be proud of yourself,,

     sblmlsbb : absolutely ss sis..

     heltered_vixen_J confidence is beauty

     J_ : in doing that, you will bring pride to your Dom, your relationship and others around you.

     ĵuniorsnot : i am proud of myself....

     little_petChance : to many still confuse D/s  with BDSM

     sblmlsbb : we are all in different places in our lives..

     J_ : does that make senes?

     J_ : okay,,   lets' see if we can't sum up what we've just spent the last hour talking about,,

     J_ : let's see if we can't put one word on each of these paragraphs,

     J_ : first one,,, what would that key word be?

     SoSubnoxious : communication

     heltered_vixen_J : Communication

     little_petChance : I

     lgrl : i

     J_ : Communication,, bingo!

     J_ : second paragraph?

     ĵuniorsnot : education

     sblmlsbb : we skipped that..

     SoSubnoxious : a word for the second paragraph is "guidance"

     J_ : education,, courtesy, communication, respect,,  guess they'll all fit into that one,

     sblmlsbb : educate

     J_ : and yes, guidance will fit loosely also..

     J_ : thrid paragraph?

     heltered_vixen_J : respect

     heltered_vixen_J : communication

     sblmlsbb : communication

     sblmlsbb : and respect

     ĵuniorsnot : being open

     lgrl : communication and respect

     J_ : communication, respect,, yes, I'd say they'd both fit,

     J_ : 4th paragraph?

     heltered_vixen_J : pride, honor...

     J_ : pride,, a good word there vix,

     sblmlsbb : mutual respect

     ĵuniorsnot : dignity

     MstrB1 : I thought third paragraph was responsive?

     J_ : honor,  respect, dignity, trust,

     J_ : responsive,,

     J_ : yes, I'd say all of those would fit, ,

     TONYSBUS : hey cj three words to this creed communicate/honestly and respect

     J_ : and the last paragraph?

     sblmlsbb : honor

     lgrl : honor

     ĵuniorsnot : honor

     J_ : actually, a fourth tony,, will get it in a moment,

     MstrB1 : Subbie does not mean subhuman

     J_ : honor,,         doesn't mean subhuman,,,

      heltered_vixen_J Consider D/s as an old wagon wheel with four spokes, each spoke has a name, trust, communication, respect and honesty, if even one spoke  is damaged or incomplete, the wheel would not be able to roll properly.

     J_ : hmm,,, so, if I sum up all those words,, I wonder if it would fit on

       vix's wheel,,   you'll have to take a peek and see what you think,,

        http://www.asubmissivesjourney.com/wheel.html

     J_ : now, I have to ask,, any of you girls think you couldn't try to live

       by this creed?

     heltered_vixen_J : try being the key word.. yes, I could...

     sblmlsbb : its my desire to Sir..

     SoSubnoxious : i could try if i knew it was being reciprocated

     vonnie807777 : lol vix..............my thoughts exactly

     ĵuniorsnot : of course

     sblmlsbb : they are all honorable desires..

     nlwdgmMo : 30/f/fl

     J_ : key words are the first two vix,,,,, not I could,, but,, I WILL

     lgrl : i believe with the right Master/Dom i could try Sir

    

    

 At this point, the conversation tended to drift off to other topics and

 general chat.  Thank you to all that participated in this discussion.

 

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