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Weekly Topic/Class/Discussion Notes - Sunday, October 17, 2010

Sunday, October 17, 2010

Submissive - vs. Slave, The Differences

 

Class log  10-17-2010

 

 

[CJsHere] 9:04 pm: good evening all.

[Jimmy13532000] 9:04 pm: hello CJ

[Briteyes] 9:04 pm: hi jade and all I can not seem to keep up with tonite lol

[cece] 9:04 pm: Good Evening Sir CJ

[cricket_NF] 9:04 pm: Good evening Sir CJ

[sgpet] 9:04 pm: Evening Sir CJ

[jazmin] 9:04 pm: Hello Sir CJ

[new_seeking] 9:04 pm: Good Evening Sir CJ :)

[fire_AsjFG] 9:04 pm: looks at the clock.....hmmmm only 4 minutes late...not bad

Master...:D

[halmond] 9:04 pm: evening Sir CJ

[CJsHere] 9:04 pm: looks like once again, I'm a couple of minutes late,, I

apologize, I think I need to reset My clock,

[jade_DM] 9:04 pm: quietly slips into the room , respectfully acknowledging the

Sirs and Lady smiling

[blondie_E] 9:04 pm: evening Sir CJ

[littlesub_ST] 9:04 pm: Evening Sir CJ

[Sir Hardone40] 9:04 pm: Evening CJ

[CJsHere] 9:05 pm: some new faces I see, welcome,, I hope everyone has

introduced themselves to you.

[CJsHere] 9:05 pm: a quick commercial before we get started.. don’t forget, if

you haven’t signed up as a paid member yet, your paid membership supports this

site and keeps us going.

[CJsHere] 9:05 pm: Also, don’t forget, if you shop on Amazon.com, I hope you’ll

consider using one of our links to get there as we do make a few cents in

commission that way. Every cent adds up to help support the site.

[CJsHere] 9:06 pm: lol. enough with the commercials already.

[CJsHere] 9:06 pm: I notice we’ve got some new faces this week, if you haven’t

sat in on one of our topics or discussions before, remember, these topics are

meant to be discussions, feel free to ask questions, add your thoughts.

[CJsHere] 9:07 pm: A reminder, please, hold your PM’s and IM’s… I also ask you

hold down the irrelevant comments. If you get bumped offline, just come back in

quietly, we’ll all understand..

[CJsHere] 9:07 pm: We may seem to move a bit fast this evening as there is a lot

to cover, but, there’s always time to slow down to make sure you understand

what’s going on. If you don’t ask, you may never know.

[CJsHere] 9:08 pm: With that, if no one has any questions, lets see if we can’t

get started. Tonight’s topic, The difference between a submissive and a slave.

Yeeooowww, a hot topic,,

[CJsHere] 9:08 pm: This topic will probably stir up some controversy, others

will find they may put “their own” spin on things. If you ask a dozen people

what is the difference between a sub and a slave, you’ll get at least a dozen

different answers.

[CJsHere] 9:09 pm: I personally believe the difference essentially equates to

the level of trust and commitment within the relationship. I think as we delve

deeper into this topic this evening, you may see where that is so.

[CJsHere] 9:10 pm: The difference between a sub, and a slave... An interesting

question to say the least. And a dangerous question as well. The submissive is a

thing of beauty, be it male or female.

[CJsHere] 9:10 pm: They are also very brave individuals. What courage do you

think it takes to place your trust, your absolute trust in someone?

[CJsHere] 9:10 pm: Great courage!

[CJsHere] 9:11 pm: I feel the easiest way to begin this is to look at the

similarities between the two titles in question. First and most importantly they

are both based on the same principle. Trust.

[CJsHere] 9:12 pm: Without trust in the lifestyle relationship, there is

nothing. Both serve, and seek to serve. Both are empty without the guide that

leads, and need training to serve properly.

[Sir Hardone40] 9:12 pm: For in my thoughts in some respects they are the same

[Sir Hardone40] 9:12 pm: for all slaves are submissives

[CJsHere] 9:12 pm: nods, they are,, and they aren't.. but for now, let's see

where this takes us.

[CJsHere] 9:13 pm: They are comfortable with the trappings of the scene. They

both wear collars in one form or another and both offer some form of “worship”

to their Dominant.

[CJsHere] 9:13 pm: There are many other things that both do, but this forum is

not a book. With the constraints of time, we’ll just tend to look at the basics

this evening.

[CJsHere] 9:14 pm: The submissive has a unique situation. It is freedom in

bondage so to speak.

[CJsHere] 9:14 pm: Does a submissive serve?

[Sir Hardone40] 9:14 pm: yes

[new_seeking] 9:14 pm: yes Sir

[CJsHere] 9:14 pm: Yes of course. And the submissive is usually collared and

“owned”. However in this forum the word owned takes on a new meaning.

[CJsHere] 9:15 pm: It is actually closer to possessed. Owned denotes total

control, which in the case of being a collared submissive, is not true.

[CJsHere] 9:15 pm: The collar in this case shows a “territorial right” of the

Dominant. A hands off sign to others. Or, a symbol of the Dominant himself.

[CJsHere] 9:16 pm: Webster's defines submission in the following terms; “The

state or quality of being submissive; acknowledgment of inferiority or

dependence; humble or suppliant behavior; meekness; resignation; obedience.”

[CJsHere] 9:17 pm: I chose this definition because it most accurately shows the

meaning of the word in the context we are exploring. In the training I have

received and given, the above words are chiseled in stone.

[CJsHere] 9:18 pm: Each and every submissive and slave should render them upon

their soul. Make them their “rules to live by”. This definition is also a part

of the basis of the slave as well.

[CJsHere] 9:18 pm: However this is where the slave and the submissive begin to

part company. As I said earlier, the submissive is not owned but possessed.

[Sir Hardone40] 9:19 pm: I would tend to disagree but will wait till later to

discuss my thoughts

[CJsHere] 9:19 pm: To better understand the difference, one must first

understand how that type of relationship is formed. There is a negotiation that

takes place between the Dominant and the prospective submissive before an

agreement or contract is agreed upon.

[CJsHere] 9:19 pm: nods to Hardone.

[CJsHere] 9:20 pm: The submissive will outline the areas where the Dominant will

have influence, and where he will not. It will also indicate and define what the

Dominant can and, more importantly, cannot do.

[CJsHere] 9:20 pm: yes, the Dominant may also outline areas of his

"non-influence"

[CJsHere] 9:21 pm: In most cases a contract of some form or another is drawn up

to be agreed upon and signed by both, this may sometimes even be accomplished

orally, or by implication. There is usually a time period to the length of the

contract, and several aspects during the term of it are always negotiable.

[CJsHere] 9:22 pm: The key point here is that the submissive is allowing the

Dominant to control only certain aspects of it's life. It will retain an

identity separate and apart from that of the D&s lifestyle.

[CJsHere] 9:22 pm: This does not make the submissive any less of a servant in

the world we've chosen to live in.

[CJsHere] 9:23 pm: I have seen many a submissive who make the chosen lifestyle

slave look like a light weight, inexperienced rube. Again understand I believe

submission is beauty incarnate.

[CJsHere] 9:24 pm: To better understand where we have gone so far, let's look at

the other point of the question, the position or role of the slave.

[CJsHere] 9:25 pm: Webster's defines slave in the following terms;“ A bond

servant divested of all freedom and personal rights;

[CJsHere] 9:25 pm: a human being who is owned by and wholly subject to the will

of another, as by capture, purchase, or birth.”

[CJsHere] 9:25 pm: To My knowledge, There is really no better explanation of the

word and meaning of slave than that in the dictionary and presented here.

[CJsHere] 9:26 pm: Here the differences will become a whole lot clearer. Again,

as with the submissive, the person who becomes a slave is a thing of beauty.

[CJsHere] 9:26 pm: It is also a lot harder on the individual and not all are

called to this form of the lifestyle, and believe me it is a calling.

[CJsHere] 9:27 pm: Read the definition. Understand the meaning of each

individual word. It takes the meaning of trust to an entirely different level.

[CJsHere] 9:28 pm: It is not something to be entered upon lightly or frivolously

by either the prospective slave or the Dominant. It is a tremendous

responsibility to both.

[CJsHere] 9:28 pm: The control exerted upon the slave by the Dominant in this

case is full and complete. There is no room for debate.

[Sir Hardone40] 9:29 pm: it is not only the control but the authority

[CJsHere] 9:29 pm: As with the submissive, there is usually a period of

negotiation which has come after long periods of training and evaluation by the

Dominant in question.

[CJsHere] 9:30 pm: These discussions are to form the basis of the prospective

slaves abilities and limits. Limits which will be oft times stretched and

sometimes surpassed.

[Sir Hardone40] 9:31 pm: the only limit a slave has is the limits of her Master

[CJsHere] 9:31 pm: Now I know what you're asking; “How can there be limits? How

can there be negotiating when a person is so totally owned?”

[CJsHere] 9:31 pm: Would you like to be punished for something that you cannot

absolutely do?

[CJsHere] 9:32 pm: I thought not. Unlike the submissive who has “freedom in

their bondage”, the slave gives up control of all aspects their lives.

[CJsHere] 9:32 pm: The Dominant sets the rules which will govern the life of the

slave for a much longer period of time than in the case of the submissive.

[CJsHere] 9:33 pm: It was mentioned before that the contract between a

submissive and the Dominant is usually set for a fixed period of time to be

re-negotiated and agreed upon again.

[CJsHere] 9:34 pm: In the case of the slave there is no such brief stay in the

position. You are or you are not. That is why there is (or should be) a time of

evaluation between the Dominant and the applicant.

[CJsHere] 9:34 pm: It becomes the basis in what for most, if not all, is a life

time of commitment. So now we may simplify things a bit.

[Sir Hardone40] 9:35 pm: But so can a D/s relationshipe

[CJsHere] 9:35 pm: A submissive allows certain aspects of their lives to be

controlled by the Dominant while retaining an individual identity.

[CJsHere] 9:35 pm: A slave on the other hand, turns over control of all aspects

of their life. The Dominant is the beginning and the end.

[CJsHere] 9:36 pm: The life that a slave leads is very similar to that of the

course of the planets, with the Dominant being the sun and the slaves world

revolving around that.

[CJsHere] 9:36 pm: Now having read that you may make the assumption that the

submissive is less dedicated to serving it's Dominant.

[CJsHere] 9:37 pm: Not at all. All it means is that for the slave there is

nothing, absolutely nothing else in the world other than the pleasure of the

Dominant.

[CJsHere] 9:37 pm: While the submissive must juggle the responsibilities of life

it has chosen to retain as well as the relationship it has chosen to enter upon

with the Dominant.

[CJsHere] 9:38 pm: I said earlier that this was an interesting question, and a

dangerous one as well. I said that this is a calling, and not all are called.

[CJsHere] 9:39 pm: This is where the danger lies. In this world of sexually

transmitted diseases, such as HIV and AIDS, our lifestyle, it seems, is en

vogue.

[CJsHere] 9:39 pm: Is there a place for all in this world in which we've chosen

to live?

[CJsHere] 9:40 pm: No. There is the place for the devotee, and the voyeur, the

Dom and the Domme, the slave and the submissive, the Master and of course the

Mistress.

[CJsHere] 9:40 pm: But this is no place for the faint of heart or the con man

out for a quick lay who's playing at this life and mocking it in the same

breath.

[CJsHere] 9:41 pm: Here is the danger I was speaking of earlier.

[CJsHere] 9:41 pm: Ignorance.

[CJsHere] 9:41 pm: I called the words submissive and slave titles, and rightly

so. They are so much more than words, and should not be trivialized and made

labels. These are things that one aspires to, are born to.

[CJsHere] 9:42 pm: However in this world properly identifying oneself to others

is very important if one wishes to be taken seriously.

[CJsHere] 9:42 pm: What would your opinion as a Master be of a person who

applies to be a slave, and then wishes to set limitations on the amount of

control you as a Master may have?

[CJsHere] 9:43 pm: It is like someone who calls himself a Master with out

actually being one.

[CJsHere] 9:43 pm: The word Master itself denotes mastery of something;

Webster's defines Master in the following terms;“ a man who rules others or has

control, authority, or power over something;

[CJsHere] 9:44 pm: specifically, (a) a man who is head of a household or

institution;...(c) an owner of an animal or slave........ a person very skilled

and able in some work, profession, science, etc.; expert;

[CJsHere] 9:44 pm: specifically, (a) a skilled workman or craftsman qualified to

follow his trade independently; (b) an artist regarded as great”

[CJsHere] 9:45 pm: http://www.asubmissivesjourney.com/master.html will also

expound a bit on the difference between a Master and a Dominant.

[CJsHere] 9:45 pm: So also do not take the titles of those above you lightly, or

give them freely. They are earned as are the titles of the submissive and slave.

[CJsHere] 9:45 pm: Some would argue that they are actually a state of being, I

disagree. One may have submissive tendencies, yet be so assertive that it defies

the definition.

[CJsHere] 9:46 pm: Someone can be slave like, yet be as free spirited and

defiant as the wild mustang. So too are the tittles of Master and Mistress.

[CJsHere] 9:46 pm: Each earned. Aspired to. One does not buy a whip and be

considered a Master. Try mastering the tool first. Now isn’t that a novel

concept?

[CJsHere] 9:47 pm: These are titles earned through hard work and study. A title

given by your peers. A title of respect earned from the submissive and the

slave, not extracted.

[CJsHere] 9:47 pm: And so we have hopefully made the journey to the explanation

of the subject in question without losing or offending anyone.

[Lobby]: new_seeking has left at 9:47 pm

[CJsHere] 9:47 pm: The lifestyle we live is a very fluid thing. It can become so

many different things to so many different people

[CJsHere] 9:48 pm: Like with the lives of the submissive and the slave

overlapping in some areas. You can mix and match the things discussed in this

article to suit your individual situation.

[CJsHere] 9:48 pm: The things I have presented to you here have a basis in

tradition. A tradition going back hundreds of years.

[CJsHere] 9:49 pm: There are marked differences in the forms of the lifestyle

between the United States and Europe, and the world at large.

[CJsHere] 9:49 pm: The American venue of the lifestyle is built on traditions

that came to this country from Europe just prior to the turn of the last

century.

[CJsHere] 9:50 pm: Over the years it has taken on it’s own unique form

recognizable throughout the world. The European customs and styles are based on

customs covering at least eight hundred years of tradition.

[CJsHere] 9:50 pm: Neither is the “right” or correct form. They are a basis from

which to begin, to learn. So take this and learn from it. Question it. Dissect

it.

[CJsHere] 9:51 pm: I firmly believe that all topics in this arena of life should

foster more questions, and that the answers should do the same. The questioning

continues, and that is how we learn.

[CJsHere] 9:51 pm: I think I've shown that the basis for both the submissive and

the slave lifestyle, or role is founded on trust. A natural assumption is that

trust will grow, enhance and stabilize as the relationship endures.

[CJsHere] 9:53 pm: If that is so, then it is My contention that ultimately, if a

relationship is going to grow, to survive, and to be the relationship that both

the Dominant and the submissive want it to be, then if nothing other than by

default, eventually, every relationship will progress to the point of the

submissive becoming a slave.

[CJsHere] 9:53 pm: Okay,,, braces Myself, sits back and waits for the barrage of

comments, questions, objections and occasional tomato to be thrown,,

[fire_AsjFG] 9:54 pm: ducks behind His chair...hides from the fruit

[Sir Hardone40] 9:54 pm: lol

[Sir Hardone40] 9:54 pm: just a couple of observations

[CJsHere] 9:54 pm: nods to Hardone,, listens,

[Sir Hardone40] 9:54 pm: first a owned submissive

[Sir Hardone40] 9:55 pm: if one can not totally give over all

[Sir Hardone40] 9:55 pm: due to one reason or another but gives those areas she

can to her Master then what

[Sir Hardone40] 9:56 pm: for she has given all that she can due to the law

[CJsHere] 9:57 pm: if it's a case of not being able to give over all, remember

two things, first, the definition we are dealing with here is what is commonly

referred to as the "accepted lifestyle definition". the second thing to

remember, as pointed out.. each and every relationship is unique,,, what fits

for one, might not fit for the other. Now, if you bring forth a requirement to

violate the "law".. then your talking a horse of a differnt color, that

shouldn't be part of any D/s relationship, should it?

[Sir Hardone40] 9:57 pm: ok

[Sir Hardone40] 9:58 pm: second thing is a D/s relationship can progress to one

without time limits

[CJsHere] 9:58 pm: takes three slaves,,, turns them all into bank robbers, hmmm,

don't think that will work,,

[Sir Hardone40] 9:58 pm: will agree that most D/s relationships will tend to

move into an M/s relationship over time and the development of trust

[Sir Hardone40] 9:59 pm: The other thing I would point out is even with a slave

there is one right which is never given over

[CJsHere] 9:59 pm: Nods, yes, it can ,, and again, that refers to the "norm"..

but wait a moment,, think about this a moment,, as it progresses, as things like

time limits are removed,, since it's the "Dominant" that essentially sets the

limits,,, do you also think it likely that the sub will progress to being a

slave, quite possibly without either realizing it?

[Sir Hardone40] 10:00 pm: sure in most cases in a relationship that exist over

time it will

[Sir Hardone40] 10:00 pm: for as I said all slaves are submissives

[anaka_CAS] 10:00 pm: respectfully disagrees, either that or she shouldn't be

here...

[CJsHere] 10:00 pm: nods, and that's My contention,,, bottom line, IMHO, the

difference between a sub and a slave is the level of trust and commitment within

the relationship.. :)

[Sir Hardone40] 10:00 pm: this is because they start out at some point as

submissive and move into being a slave

[Sir Hardone40] 10:01 pm: sure would agree but also beleive that there are some

cases where there are owned submissives

[CJsHere] 10:01 pm: if the relationship endures, the trust and the commitment

strengthen and build,, hence, the level of trust and commitment increases.....

hmm, I wonder if that is the case, then actually would it be true to say that

whether they realize it or not, almost all subs aspire to be slaves?

[Sir Hardone40] 10:02 pm: more or less caught in between the standard

understandings within the lifestyles between that of a submissive and a slave

[CJsHere] 10:02 pm: anaka, what is it you disagree with?

[CJsHere] 10:03 pm: listens to anaka,

[anaka_CAS] 10:03 pm: that all subs will eventually become a slave, Sir

[CJsHere] 10:03 pm: anaka, first,,, I said,, : hmm, I wonder if that is the case,

then actually ...would it be true to say that whether they realize it or not, almost all subs

aspire to be slaves?

[CJsHere] 10:03 pm: "almost all".

[anaka_CAS] 10:04 pm: then i guess i am the 'almost'

[CJsHere] 10:04 pm: next,, I would tell you, that IMHO,, IF a girl is truly

living as a submissive,, with the "desire" to serve her Dominant, and a desire

to strengthen the relationship, then why would she not aspire to that role?

[Sir Hardone40] 10:04 pm: I would say that not all aspire to be and will also say

there are some who go by the name of slave who are more submissive than slave

[CJsHere] 10:05 pm: now, if she's there to play games, or to try to convince

others she's something she's not, then yes, that is another story entirely, and

that really can't be used as a valid comparison, can it?

[MrCAS] 10:05 pm: But there different levels of submission

[CJsHere] 10:06 pm: nods to CAS, sure there are,, but again, if the girl seeks to

serve her Dominant, and seeks to strengthen her relationship, strengthen the

bonds of that relationship, wouldn’t you think her level of submission would

increase?

[MrCAS] 10:06 pm: OK, I see where you are going with that

[Sir Hardone40] 10:07 pm: Again it all goes back to what ones sees as a slave

meaning

[CJsHere] 10:07 pm: now, again, if her desire to "serve" is only superficial,

then no, she'll always remain nothing more than mildly submissive,

[MrCAS] 10:07 pm: It is the same that a Dom would increase His level of the

relationship as well

[CJsHere] 10:07 pm: nods, and again, using that analogy, it's how the "Dominant

progresses to being a "Master".

[CJsHere] 10:08 pm: every Male Dominant isn't a Master, just as every female

submissive isn't a sub/slave.

[Sir Hardone40] 10:08 pm: so then in your concept there can only be a Master if

he has a slave?

[CJsHere] 10:08 pm: oh, absolutely not. !!

[Sir Hardone40] 10:08 pm: :)

[CJsHere] 10:08 pm: far from it, !!!

[CJsHere] 10:09 pm: but yes, He somehow has to have the knowledge base, the

experience level.. and the confidence and respect of his peers to acheive that,

[Sir Hardone40] 10:09 pm: correct

[CJsHere] 10:09 pm: and yes, there is a significant diffrence between knowledge,

and experience, a Master will have both.

[Sir Hardone40] 10:09 pm: for that is a given and is not a title one places on

him or her self

[CJsHere] 10:10 pm: most definitely, yet so many don't understand that,

[cece] 10:10 pm: Sir CJ, You mentioned a sub could be possessed but not owned

whereas a slave is owned...in my opinion possession and ownership are the same,

could You help clarify what You think the difference is?

[CJsHere] 10:10 pm: smiles, yes, I think I can cece,, and yes, a good question,

[CJsHere] 10:10 pm: let's see, hmm, an analogy I can use,

[CJsHere] 10:11 pm: you own a pack of cigarettes, they are yours because you

bought and paid for them, do with them as you please.

[CJsHere] 10:12 pm: that pack of cigarettes doesn't have the ability to establish

a desire to be owned,, it doesn't decide, hey, there's an owner I want,, the

submissive allows themselves to be "possessed",, they're essentially there

because they want to be,, no, that doesn't mean a slave doesn't want to be

owned,, because yes, most do.

[CJsHere] 10:12 pm: hmm, clear as mud,, but does that make sense?

[cece] 10:13 pm: so You are says a possession wants to be possessed?

[MrCAS] 10:13 pm: Like a lease car?

[cece] 10:13 pm: the desire is the difference?

[MrCAS] 10:14 pm: you can drive but you never own it

[CJsHere] 10:14 pm: not quite the same,,,

[CJsHere] 10:14 pm: look to the definition of possessed,

[Lobby]: blondie_E has left at 10:15 pm

[MrCAS] 10:15 pm: what I mean is.... you have to maintain it.... feed it.. wash

it... but you don't own it

[cece] 10:15 pm: here is the definition i found...the act or fact of possessing.

...2. the state of being possessed.

...3. ownership.

[CJsHere] 10:15 pm: yes,, a submissive can be possessed, as in a possession, but

don't you think it could also be an emotional state of being possessed

[CJsHere] 10:16 pm: Possession, having some degree of control over something else

[CJsHere] 10:17 pm: (taken from wikipedia)

[CJsHere] 10:17 pm: it is that control the Dominant exerts, and the submissive

submits to that gives the Dominant possession.

[cece] 10:18 pm: so the distinction You were making was that one possessed has a

degree of control and one owned does not?

[Sir Hardone40] 10:18 pm: But then is that not ownership

[Sir Hardone40] 10:18 pm: to a certain extent

[CJsHere] 10:18 pm: to an extent, yes cece

[Sir Hardone40] 10:18 pm: just not total

[CJsHere] 10:19 pm: ahh Hardone, Key words,, "to a certain extent".

[CJsHere] 10:19 pm: with a slave,, remove those words.

[cece] 10:19 pm: thank You, Sir

[CJsHere] 10:20 pm: I hope that answers the question cece,

[CJsHere] 10:20 pm: anyone else have any questions or comments?

[cece] 10:20 pm: yes Sir, depending on the definition You use, the distinction is

clear

[CJsHere] 10:20 pm: what about you paige, have we lost you yet?

[paige] 10:21 pm: no Sir, just listening

[CJsHere] 10:21 pm: nods,, Okay, looking to the clock, I guess I've rambled away

for an hour.. any of the Dom's have anything to add? CAS, Jimmy, Brite?

[Jimmy13532000] 10:22 pm: I think that pretty much covers it and gives E/everyone

some good things to think about.

[Briteyes] 10:22 pm: not really anything here

[CJsHere] 10:22 pm: nods to Jimmy, and Brite, fire, would you like to comment, or

add anything?

[fire_AsjFG] 10:22 pm: nothing to add Master....thank You for an informative

class as usual...:)

[littlesub_ST] 10:23 pm: ty Sir CJ

[CJsHere] 10:23 pm: nod, ty fire,, girls, anything you'd like to add?

[paige] 10:23 pm: yes, thank you for the information Sir

[CJsHere] 10:23 pm: any questions or comments by anyone?

[halmond] 10:23 pm: thank You Sir CJ

[Briteyes] 10:23 pm: just one

[cricket_NF] 10:23 pm: so...basically, a submissive is a possestion but not owned

and can set limits and has a "right" to make decisions, a slave is owned and has

no say.? am i correct..of course that is completly simplified and thereis more

in between

[cece] 10:23 pm: nothing else Sir, thank You

[CJsHere] 10:24 pm: as always, I do thank everyone for attending,, your

participation is what makes these discussions what they are.. and yes, I do hope

they help, or at least set you to thinking a bit,

[CJsHere] 10:24 pm: reads crickets comment,

[Briteyes] 10:24 pm: that IMO most M/s start as D/s........ not many start as a

slave from the ones I actually no its grown into over time

[CJsHere] 10:25 pm: nods, that's over simplified,,, but yes, it's essentially

true,, but now to really confuse you, don't forget reality,, because the bottom

line reality is, yes, even a slave has limits, and to some extent choices,

emotions and feelings that her Dominant must deal with and respect.

[CJsHere] 10:25 pm: now, does that confuse you?

[cricket_NF] 10:25 pm: and here is where my confusion truely lies...lmao

[CJsHere] 10:25 pm: and yes, I quite agree with Brite,, a true slave may take

literally years to progress from submissive to slave,

[CJsHere] 10:26 pm: and that's okay, don't think for a moment it's not.

[paige] 10:26 pm: Thank you Sirs and Lady and everyone for allowing me to sit in

[CJsHere] 10:27 pm: regardless of the role, submissive or slave, don't forget,

there are needs to be tended to, emotional, physical, psychological and mroe

[Briteyes] 10:27 pm: please come back again soon paige

[CJsHere] 10:27 pm: more

[CJsHere] 10:27 pm: nods to paige, you're always welcome girl, and I hope we'll

see more of you, I think I speak for all in saying so.

[CJsHere] 10:28 pm: does that answer your question crickett?

[fire_AsjFG] 10:28 pm: bug... you have more questions?

[paige] 10:28 pm: I dont remember what I am supposed to say to leave so I will

just say thank you again and good night to all

[cricket_NF] 10:28 pm: somewhat lol Sir CJ

[fire_AsjFG] 10:28 pm: no worries paige :)

[Lobby]: paige has left at 10:28 pm

[CJsHere] 10:28 pm: nods to paige, you said it,, sleep safely little one,

[cricket_NF] 10:28 pm: but, honestly i could hold things up for hours but wont.

[littlesub_ST] 10:28 pm: bye paige nice meeting you

[cricket_NF] 10:28 pm: thank you for your time

[Briteyes] 10:29 pm: chirpie go for it what better do W/we have to do ;)

[CJsHere] 10:29 pm: k, if it didn't answer cricket, ask away,

[CJsHere] 10:29 pm: I dont know, but we can blame it on pet,

[CJsHere] 10:30 pm: she's been quiet all night,

[sgpet] 10:30 pm: what.. sorry was afk for a little while

[CJsHere] 10:30 pm: lol.

[sgpet] 10:30 pm: busted

[CJsHere] 10:30 pm: see,, it comes out..

[CJsHere] 10:30 pm: figured you and jaz were off having coffee.

[sgpet] 10:31 pm: lol think i had my fill of coffe tonight.. two pots now and

going strong... lol

[CJsHere] 10:31 pm: okay all,, something tells Me I've answered everyone’s

questions, if I haven't, don't hesitate to PM Me and we can tackle these one on

one,

[jazmin] 10:31 pm: lol i just actually got a cup gosh your good SirCJ

[Jimmy13532000] 10:32 pm: ok, time for me to get going for the night, E/everyone

have a goodnight and week

[Briteyes] 10:32 pm: hey or if S/some would like we can go to Dom and subs and

continue :)

[Briteyes] 10:32 pm: nite Jimmy

[littlesub_ST] 10:32 pm: gnight Sir

[CJsHere] 10:32 pm: again, I thank all for their attendance here this evening,,

I'm gonna take a 5 min finger break, will be back then,

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