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Weekly Topic/Class/Discussion Notes - Wednesday December 30, 2009

Wednesday, December 30, 2009

Submissive vs.Slave

 

Class Notes 12/30/09

 

CJsHere] 9:07 pm: okay, I've heard lots of people talk about what the differences

are between a sub and a slave,, but here is a twist to that,, who decides if a girl is

a sub or a slave?

[CJsHere] 9:07 pm: anyone got any ideas on that?

[fire_SB] 9:07 pm: hmm

[Lobby]: sgpet has left at 9:07 pm

[fire_SB] 9:07 pm: oops

[CJsHere] 9:08 pm: fire,, randi, you two always have lots of words, lets hear your

thoughts,

[fire_SB] 9:08 pm: glad I got an extra person....

[babydoll0629] 9:08 pm: yes ty fire

[Lobby]: sgpet has entered at 9:08 pm

[ashes_SZ] 9:08 pm: laughs.....wb pet

[fire_SB] 9:08 pm: wb sg

[CJsHere] 9:08 pm: wb pet

[randi_SB] 9:08 pm: wb pet

[RB0629] 9:08 pm: wb pet

[sgpet] 9:08 pm: oops sorry about that, hit the wrong button..lol

[babydoll0629] 9:09 pm: lol

[sgpet] 9:09 pm: thank Y/you

[ashes_SZ] 9:09 pm: lol

[CJsHere] 9:09 pm: will repaste the question for pets benefit,

[CJsHere] 9:09 pm: [CJsHere] 9:07 pm: okay, I've heard lots of people talk about

what the differences are between a sub and a slave,, but here is a twist ...to that,, who decides if a girl is a sub or a slave?

...[CJsHere] 9:07 pm: anyone got any ideas on that?

[fire_SB] 9:09 pm: well Sir.....this girl would actually think it would be her

Master that would decide whether His girl is a sub or a slave

[fire_SB] 9:09 pm: in His eyes what she is

[CJsHere] 9:09 pm: hmm, her Master,,  any other thoughts from anyone?

[sgpet] 9:10 pm: i was under the impersion that it was the girl that decides

[fire_SB] 9:10 pm: come on people

[babydoll0629] 9:10 pm: how much you allow yourself to be controled

[babydoll0629] 9:10 pm: maybe

[fire_SB] 9:10 pm: no one is going to bite...he he....well not now

anyway...lol

[ashes_SZ] 9:10 pm: Thinks that it depends on her Master, and how submissive

the person is

[CJsHere] 9:11 pm: so, question,, if a sub is to be turned into a slave,, wouldn't

that have to be covered in her pre relationship negotiations?  could that be a limit?

[fire_SB] 9:12 pm: hmm

[CJsHere] 9:12 pm: what, no thoughts on that

[ashes_SZ] 9:12 pm: hmms never thought about that Sir

[fire_SB] 9:12 pm: hard for fire to relate.....since she is a slave.....

[babydoll0629] 9:13 pm: for me it would depend on the definition

[randi_SB] 9:13 pm: wouldn't thtat depend on her level of submission

[RB0629] 9:13 pm: something slowly worked into based off of their arrangements

[babydoll0629] 9:13 pm: i take care of my Master wheather i am a sub or slave

[CJsHere] 9:13 pm: smiles,,, so,, what I'm hearing here,, reading between the lines, , if the girl is in the relationship already, and the change comes up,, it's essentially something

to be negotiated?  not directed?

[fire_SB] 9:14 pm: give an example Sir please

[ashes_SZ] 9:14 pm: explain please Sir

fire_SB] 9:15 pm:  goes over to ash

[CJsHere] 9:15 pm: meaning, if the "Master" one day says to his sub,, girl,, from now on,, you're a slave,, doesn't that need to be talked about?

[babydoll0629] 9:16 pm: yes

[randi_SB] 9:16 pm: yes Sir

[fire_SB] 9:16 pm: sure

[ashes_SZ] 9:16 pm: yes

[fire_SB] 9:16 pm: that is a transition....not like flipping a light switch

sgpet agrees with babydoll.. it would need to be defind what Master is expecting and what "slaves" means to both of them

[fire_SB] 9:17 pm: and some subs will never be slaves.....in what some define as slaves

[ashes_SZ] 9:18 pm: very true

[RB0629] 9:18 pm: It would be more of a dimmer switch

[CJsHere] 9:18 pm: ahh, so it would have to be discussed,, ?

randi_SB] 9:19 pm: this girl would think so Sir

[CJsHere] 9:19 pm: nods, and I'd agree,,

[CJsHere] 9:19 pm: everyone understand why?

[fire_SB] 9:19 pm: yes.....but sometimes....there isn't a negotiation.....there is just a progression in the relationship istself

[randi_SB] 9:20 pm: true

CJsHere] 9:20 pm: ahh, but,, if it starts to change the boundaries of the original agreement, progression or not, doesn't that have to be talked about?

[ashes_SZ] 9:20 pm: agrees with fire

[fire_SB] 9:20 pm: not always Sir

[babydoll0629] 9:20 pm: i would think so Sir

[fire_SB] 9:21 pm: it is an unspoken trust and bond that develops

[fire_SB] 9:21 pm: and limits disappear

[fire_SB] 9:21 pm: without discussion

[ashes_SZ] 9:21 pm: bingo, fire said it perfect....

CJsHere] 9:21 pm: oh so fire, you're saying, as an example,, you have a hard limit of standing on one foot, now, just because you've been together a few weeks, He can say, we've progressed, now stand on one foot.

[babydoll0629] 9:21 pm: but when does it change? at what point?

fire_SB] 9:22 pm: I didn't say it happened in a short time Sir....don't trivialize it

[CJsHere] 9:23 pm: for what it's worth fire,, I disagree,,, yes, that conversation can be cumulative so to speak,, it can happen in stages, but it has to happen, or one morning you might wake up and find things have really changed that you didn't want changed.

[CJsHere] 9:23 pm: and sure, that was a short time,, but,, exactly when does it change from short to medium to long?

[CJsHere] 9:23 pm: and is that change unique to you,, when does it change for Him?

[CJsHere] 9:24 pm: that make any sense?

[fire_SB] 9:24 pm: so Sir we will agree to disagree     

[CJsHere] 9:25 pm: nods, we can do that,, but,, again, I urge you to think about it,, we might be saying the same thing in different words,,

[sgpet] 9:25 pm: i would agreet that it can happen overtime and that a Master has right to push your limits but at the same time if it was an agreed upon limit the girl also has the right to refuse

[fire_SB] 9:25 pm: because in this lifestyle not everything has to be cold and in

black and white all the time.....

[CJsHere] 9:25 pm: again,, that change may be talked about slowly but surely,, effectively agreed to, without having a formal sit down and let's relook the original agreement.

[babydoll0629] 9:26 pm: true

[fire_SB] 9:26 pm: I am not saying that a Master is pushing a limit

[fire_SB] 9:26 pm: that is not what I am saying

[CJsHere] 9:26 pm: nods,, understood.

[fire_SB] 9:27 pm: I am saying that in time....with the building of trust....and with

stronger bonds....that some limits disappear

[CJsHere] 9:27 pm: okay,, earlier I asked everyone to come up with a question to toss out..

[CJsHere] 9:27 pm: anyone ready with a question, or shall I run the list?

[CJsHere] 9:27 pm: gives a volunteer about 30 seconds,,,

[fire_SB] 9:28 pm: fire is at the top of the list...so someone better speak up

fire_SB ducks

[babydoll0629] 9:28 pm: i still don't understand the difference I know there is one

[CJsHere] 9:28 pm: lol.. remember, I don't always use the top of the list to start.

[CJsHere] 9:28 pm: but, tonight,, guess I will.. fire,, toss a question out..

[CJsHere] 9:28 pm: lol

[CJsHere] 9:28 pm: next up will be pet

[fire_SB] 9:28 pm: arrrrghhhh

[fire_SB] 9:29 pm: haven't I talked enough tonight Sir

[fire_SB] 9:29 pm: fire has done her share already

[CJsHere] 9:29 pm: fire, talk enough?

[CJsHere] 9:29 pm: hmm, but, you raised your question without realizing it,

[sgpet] 9:29 pm: hey wait im at the bottom i should go last...lol

[fire_SB] 9:29 pm: ok ok

[CJsHere] 9:29 pm: so, we'll go with that,,  when is it that a girl has talked enough,, is it fair that sometimes her Master effectively says "hush" ?

fire_SB remembers SirCJ told her "once" to hush

[CJsHere] 9:30 pm: nods,,  anyone have any comments?

[fire_SB] 9:30 pm: and yes.....it was fair

[fire_SB] 9:30 pm: lol

[CJsHere] 9:31 pm: If a girl is always told to hush, or that a slave only speaks when spoken to, what effect does that have on the girl?

[fire_SB] 9:31 pm: and no fire's Master has not told her to hush yet...lol

[CJsHere] 9:31 pm: lol. give Him time,

fire_SB smiles

[babydoll0629] 9:31 pm: the opposite

CJsHere] 9:32 pm: the opposite?  care to explain a bit?

[babydoll0629] 9:32 pm: from what you are trying to achive

[ashes_SZ] 9:32 pm: it can get to the point that a sub slave doesn't feel like she has a say, and she will want to speak more probably Sir

[CJsHere] 9:32 pm: nods, she may want to speak more,, or,, do you think it might tend to close off communication?

[babydoll0629] 9:32 pm: Close off communication

[CJsHere] 9:33 pm: she might interpret that as her Master wants her to "shut up",, not speak, not be open with Him,

[ashes_SZ] 9:33 pm: if it doesn't work then yes.....knows i would close down probably and start to shut Him out honestly

[RB0629] 9:33 pm: Depending on the girl, it can do either one

[fire_SB] 9:33 pm: a girl need to be able to communicate....voice her opinion

[CJsHere] 9:34 pm: when do you think it might be appropriate for a Master/Dom to tell a girl to hush?

[CJsHere] 9:34 pm: besides when He's trying to go to sleep.

[babydoll0629] 9:34 pm: still be a person with feeling

[fire_SB] 9:34 pm: when she is doing needless chatter....while He is trying to focus

on other things.....or wanting quiet time

[fire_SB] 9:35 pm: something fire would never do...        

[CJsHere] 9:35 pm: nods to ashes, see the girl when she gets back,

[CJsHere] 9:36 pm: what about when she's putting her foot in her mouth, or going

somewhere she shouldn't be going?

[fire_SB] 9:36 pm: well hush might not be the appropriate thing to say.....

[CJsHere] 9:36 pm: lol. I used hush, cause it was easier to type.

[fire_SB] 9:36 pm: maybe explaining to her what she is wrong and why

CJsHere] 9:37 pm: nods,,

[fire_SB] 9:37 pm: I would hope compassion is used....not just harshness

[CJsHere] 9:38 pm: nods,, remember, sometimes a Dom has to do things in a constructive manner,, not just blurt things out.

[CJsHere] 9:38 pm: okay,, next question, pet,, looks like your turn,

[sgpet] 9:39 pm: umm..

[fire_SB] 9:39 pm: thank goodness

[sgpet] 9:39 pm: well... what are some things that a girl should be aware of when looking for a Master

[CJsHere] 9:39 pm: lol..

[CJsHere] 9:40 pm: I would think the most obvious one,, and one most don't consider,, she needs to consider herself a bit,, what it is that she wants and is hoping to find,

[RB0629] 9:40 pm: I do not recommend Craigs list....

[fire_SB] 9:40 pm: lmao

[fire_SB] 9:40 pm: good one SirRB

fire_SB] 9:41 pm: ebay maybe?

[RB0629] 9:41 pm: um....

[sgpet] 9:41 pm: lol

[fire_SB] 9:42 pm: I think it is very important for a girl to know herself first

[fire_SB] 9:43 pm: before she even thinks about looking for a Master

[CJsHere] 9:43 pm: chuckles..

[CJsHere] 9:43 pm: okay, with that said, what are some of the other things you might want to consider or look for?

[fire_SB] 9:44 pm: of course.....fire still doesn't know herself sometimes...he he

babydoll0629] 9:44 pm: trust

[CJsHere] 9:44 pm: hmm, is trust something that you think you'd find first?

[sgpet] 9:45 pm: no that has to be earned

[ashes_SZ] 9:45 pm: it needs to be worked towards by both parties

[babydoll0629] 9:45 pm: no but don't you have to be able to trust someone to be your Master

[ashes_SZ] 9:46 pm: disagrees with that babydoll

[babydoll0629] 9:46 pm: ok

[sgpet] 9:46 pm: that is one of my downfalls.. i trust way to easy

[babydoll0629] 9:46 pm: I see

[CJsHere] 9:46 pm: earned, explored, experienced,, and all those things take time,

[fire_SB] 9:47 pm: ohh.....well sg....you wouldn't if you had been burned

[sgpet] 9:47 pm: i have been burned.. more than once... but i have the tendancy to always the good in people even when i shouldn’t

fire_SB] 9:48 pm: I know what you mean

[CJsHere] 9:48 pm: ahh, but I don't think that's necessasarily a true statement fire.

[sgpet] 9:48 pm: i am not one to hold a grudge

[CJsHere] 9:48 pm: no, not saying pet is one of those, but there are many girls that will tend to trust over and over and over again,,

[CJsHere] 9:48 pm: sometimes it's because we really don't understand exactly what it is ... trust,, such a small word, with so many meanings,

[sgpet] 9:49 pm: i honestly feel that both times i learend something about myself and became a stringer women because of it so therefore i was able to move past it

sgpet] 9:49 pm: *stronger

[CJsHere] 9:50 pm: nods,, and that makes sense pet, but remember, we al llearn at different paces ,, in different ways, and some of us,, Dom's too,, don't seem to learn at all.

[CJsHere] 9:52 pm: make any sense so far?

[sgpet] 9:52 pm: yes Sir

ashes_SZ] 9:52 pm: yes Sir CJ

[CJsHere] 9:52 pm: on the compass of the D/s Lifestyle, there are four cardinal headings that are listed on the page here on the site, anyone recall what those are?

[CJsHere] 9:53 pm: Communication is one,,,,,  any others?

[sgpet] 9:53 pm: trust, respect

[CJsHere] 9:53 pm: nods,,

[sgpet] 9:54 pm: i cant remember the last one

[CJsHere] 9:54 pm: how about Honesty,

fire_SB smiles

[CJsHere] 9:54 pm: so,, with those in mind, would those also be things on your list to look for as qualities in a Dominant?

[CJsHere] 9:55 pm: but again, yes,, careful, some of those things take time to find out..

[ashes_SZ] 9:55 pm: yes Sir

[CJsHere] 9:55 pm: some make take a decade or longer to truly know..

[fire_SB] 9:55 pm: and easy to portray online.....

[RB0629] 9:55 pm: So true

[CJsHere] 9:55 pm: so, do  you want to wait that long to make your decision?

[CJsHere] 9:55 pm: probably not,, so, we make our best educated guess..

[CJsHere] 9:57 pm: but, now a suggestion,,

[CJsHere] 9:57 pm: consider making a list,, list all the qualities you're looking for in a Dominant, tall, short,, rich poor,, likes kink, doesn't like kink,,, list at least one hundred items on that list,

[CJsHere] 9:58 pm: now, when the list is done, go back over the list, put a star by all the things that are "negotiable",,,,,, now,, use that list when you start talking to Dom's,, start checking things off,,,,  and yes, update and revise that list continuously,

[fire_SB] 9:59 pm: a Dom shopping list

[CJsHere] 9:59 pm: when you make the list, it might surprise you,,   so go ahead give it some thought and try it,, yes, at least one hundred items on t.

[RB0629] 9:59 pm: communication should be on the top of that list in My opinion; without that link, the rest is harder to fall into place

. [sgpet] 10:00 pm: that is alot Sir but i am sure once i start it wont be too hard to do

[CJsHere] 10:01 pm: you'll be surpirsed how quick that list will grow AFTER you struggle to come up with the first dozen or so.

[Lobby]: ashes_SZ has left at 10:01 pm

[CJsHere] 10:02 pm: anyone have any other questions they want to toss out to make sure they get covered this evening?

[CJsHere] 10:04 pm: well, since it's about that time,, let's call it a night for this evening,

[babydoll0629] 10:05 pm: ok ty Sir for the discussion

[CJsHere] 10:05 pm: I do apprecaite all being here this evening,, seems like it's been rather dead over the holiday break, with luck, things will build up a bit once this weekend is gone.

[fire_SB] 10:05 pm: since W/we didn't agree on anything tonight Sir...    ....

[CJsHere] 10:06 pm: don't always have to agree fire ,,   as long as the points are brought out for all to consider,

[CJsHere] 10:06 pm: sometimes disagreeing can be a good thing,, allows others to see multiple viewpoints,

[fire_SB] 10:06 pm: well fire likes to spar with You Sir...he he

[CJsHere] 10:06 pm: remember,, I'm not the maker of all the rules and ways of the lifestyle.

 

 

 

 

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