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Weekly Topic/Class/Discussion Notes - Wednesday October 21, 2009

Topping from the Bottom

Wednesday, October 21, 2009

 

Class Notes 10/21/09

 

[CJsHere] 4:14 pm: evening all. sorry for the delay in getting started.
[darkorchid66] 4:14 pm: wb Sir CJ
[CJsHere] 4:14 pm: hello Sir CJ
[] 4:14 pm: np Sir
[meira_SV] 4:14 pm: welcome back Master
[CJsHere] 4:14 pm: so, a quick commercial, and we'll get on with the show.. If you
haven't visited http://www.asubmissivesjourney.com/subscribe.html I urge you to
pay a visit,, the site really needs your support! Okay, end of commercial.
[[CJsHere] 4:15 pm: let me quickly scroll up, see if I can see a word or two that will
make a good topic,

[CJsHere] 4:16 pm: hmm, scrolled up, from the top of the screen to the bottom,, seems like everyone is avoiding anything I might turn into a topic,, hmm,, scrolled up and down,, top to bottom,, yep,, I think I can use that,,
[eira_SV] 4:16 pm: grins
[[CJsHere] 4:16 pm: anyone ever heard the term Topping from the bottom.. ?
[darkorchid66] 4:16 pm: yes Sir...

[SouthJerseyD] 4:17 pm: of course
[meira_SV] 4:17 pm: yes Master
[] 4:17 pm: yes Sir
[[CJsHere] 4:17 pm: hmm,, Topping from the bottom is a lifestyle term that we 'borrowed' from the BDSM culture..
[CJsHere] 4:17 pm: Can anyone tell Me what it means?
[eira_SV] 4:18 pm: when the sub tries to maintain or gain control of a
situation?
[[CJsHere] 4:20 pm: nods to meira,, so in essence, what you're saying is the sub/slave is attempting to control all or part of the relationship, or facets of it,
[CJsHere] 4:20 pm: ashes, can you give Me an example of this?
[] 4:22 pm: pheonix, You here?
[] 4:22 pm: perhaps You can take the example of a very "subtle" example.
[] 4:23 pm: did I lose ya ashes?
[] 4:23 pm: Well I'm here, and I think I have an example, but it's not subtle,
[] 4:23 pm: fire away Snpic
[] 4:23 pm: ashes went to the bathroom she'll brb
[] 4:23 pm: hmm... I cant think of anything sublte
[] 4:23 pm: u sure? it's not subtle at all
[] 4:24 pm: have at it,
[] 4:24 pm: ~fire covers her eyes~
[meira_SV] 4:24 pm: laughs
[] 4:24 pm: listens,
[] 4:24 pm: ~peeks through her fingers~
[] 4:25 pm: okay, well it kinda stems off a story I read once, male tops (like
that "guy" in a gay relationship" doing housework and serving at the
command of the bottom(that'd be the "woman")
[] 4:26 pm: is that the example Snpic?
[] 4:26 pm: it's the best I can think of, unless I'm off-center
[SouthJerseyD] 4:27 pm: I would say it's a sub who knows how to get her Dominant to act the way she wants him too.
[] 4:27 pm: when U said topping from the bottom, that's what came to mind
[SouthJerseyD] 4:27 pm: It could be something as simple as saying "please don't
spank me" if she knows that will get him to her and she wants to be spanked
[SouthJerseyD] 4:28 pm: *get him to spank her
[] 4:28 pm: hmm, let's look at that for a moment,, if I got that right,, the
'Top' (Dom) is doign some housework,, serving the bottom (sub/slave) hmm, is
that an example of topping from the bottom, what does everyone think?
[SouthJerseyD] 4:28 pm: I disagree
[] 4:28 pm: waits for some answers
[meira_SV] 4:28 pm: doesn't think that's an example of topping from the bottom
[] 4:28 pm: not necessarily.....
[] 4:29 pm: no
[] 4:29 pm: i don't agree Sir
[darkorchid66] 4:29 pm: no Sir
[] 4:29 pm: I tend to like fires answer,,,, not necessasarily,,, but could be,,
but then again, might not be,,
[] 4:29 pm: well it's my first class, how about half credit? :D
[[CJsHere] 4:29 pm: how about some answers from those that agree, or disagree as to why?
[] 4:29 pm: ercise answer huh Sir??..lol
[] 4:30 pm: hopefully,
[] 4:30 pm: or at least fairly specific,
[SouthJerseyD] 4:30 pm: Just because a top does some housework that doesn't mean they are serving the bottom
[] 4:31 pm: why would doing housework be considered "serving" the
bottom???....
[meira_SV] 4:31 pm: if the sub got the Dom to do the housework by some kind of
manipulation..then topping from teh bottom would be occuring...but a Dom just
doing housework on its own doesn't have anythign to do with topping from the
bottom
[[] 4:31 pm: what if the housework were being "shared"... I think that might be
what You're saying oJD...
[] 4:31 pm: nods with meira.. can you give an example of that "manipulation" ?
[meira_SV] 4:33 pm: maybe if she says "oh woes me, i couldn't possibly get the
house cleaned before the guests come over..i'm to _insert excuse here,,sick,
tired, overworked_...when in fact she just doesn't want to do work...and perhaps
the Dom isn't experienced enough to pick up on the pattern that's perhaps
developed anytime she's asked to do the housework...
[[CJsHere] 4:33 pm: nods, that could be,, a good example.
[CJsHere] 4:33 pm: or what about this one,,, it's just about
[CJsHere] 4:34 pm: 'that time of the month' so the girl says, Sir,, I have such cramps right now, can you do it for me,,,, (in reality, no she doesn't have cramps)

 [] 4:35 pm: hmm, puts the Dom in a bad spot,
[] 4:35 pm: i don't think thats topping from bottom i just think thats plan
dishonesty
[] 4:35 pm: that one would be hard to judge for male dom
[] 4:35 pm: honestly, I've had that excuse hit me so many times in the past I
figured it was kinda women's "get outta jail free" card
[sugarnspice] 4:35 pm: i agree...it can be both manipulating and dishonesty
[meira_SV] 4:36 pm: ashes: those kind of go hand in hand a lot of times :)
[] 4:36 pm: If He says sure, I'll help,, He's caved in,, she's gotten her way,,,
but, if He says 'no",, He's in an equally bad spot since obviously He doesn't
care about the girl.
[] 4:36 pm: uh huh, honesty, integrity, trust and honor come in to play here,
[] 4:36 pm: and yes ,, when topping from the bottom, bank on it, the
relationship will begin to erode.
[] 4:37 pm: you can only cry wolf so many times, then the trust fades,,,
[meira_SV] 4:37 pm: how does a Dom tell if a girl is just topping from the
bottom all the time or if she isn't really submissive in the first place?
[sugarnspice] 4:37 pm: very true...
[nalani_AsJ] 4:38 pm: maybe she isnt a submissive
[nalani_AsJ] 4:38 pm: maybe she really is a domme
[meira_SV] 4:38 pm: nalani: nods...that's what i was wondering :)
[] 4:38 pm: or is she testing,
[sugarnspice] 4:38 pm: couldn't it be possible to that the sub may feel in over
their head so they try different escape routes?
[] 4:39 pm: first,, the Dom needs to learn to recognize when something is
slapping Him in the face,,, and yes, it can be very obscure,
[nalani_AsJ] 4:39 pm: or that too sugarnspice
[nalani_AsJ] 4:39 pm: didnt look at it that way
[] 4:39 pm: care for a real life example?
[meira_SV] 4:39 pm: examples usually help :)
[sugarnspice] 4:39 pm: yes please
[] 4:39 pm: plz Sir
[] 4:39 pm: who's My big coffee drinker here,,,,, (girls only please)
[] 4:40 pm: ~raises hand~
[] 4:40 pm: I live on it Sir
[sugarnspice] 4:40 pm: only when i'm really tired sir
[] 4:40 pm: okay,, gonna pick on fire,,,, she was first.
[] 4:41 pm: here I am,, example only,, I've collared fire,,, a good girl,
nothing spectacular, but a good girl,, does as she's told (most of the time)...
[] 4:41 pm: hey
[] 4:41 pm: :(
[[CJsHere] 4:41 pm: we're 24/7 real life,, (setting the stage).. I work, she stays home, takes care of the house and other assorted tasks and chores.
[CJsHere] 4:42 pm: so, she likes coffee,, especially coffee from the local drive thru
coffee shop.

[] 4:42 pm: ~could have said she was something special...geez~
[darkorchid66] 4:42 pm: hehe
[[CJsHere] 4:42 pm: so, what the heck, I'm headed home,, whip into the drive thru, buy her a cup of coffee,, no biggie,, it's just a cup of coffee..
[CJsHere] 4:43 pm: I get home, sure enough, things are great, she's got a smile,, I've got a smile, chores are done,, all is well. hand her the cup of coffee,, wooo
hooo.. she's happy as a pig in #$%^ she's got her treat.
[CJsHere] 4:44 pm: next day, same thing happens,, middle of the day, I stop and buy her a coffee... get home,, whoa, been a hectic day,, she's not smiling a lot,, but I hand her the coffee,,, maybe that will cheer her up.
[CJsHere] 4:44 pm: a short time later, I notice, hey wait, some of the chores aren't
done yet,,, yes, excuses,, but, bottom line the chores aren't done,,
[[CJsHere] 4:45 pm: whoops,, what have I done?
[CJsHere] 4:45 pm: yes, it's very very subtle,,, but I've just let her Top me from the
bottom,, perhaps without her even knowing it,

[CJsHere] 4:45 pm: anyone care to guess why, or how?
[] 4:45 pm: reward without proper behavior?

[CJsHere] 4:46 pm: nods, that's one point,
[] 4:46 pm: u served her the offe to please her,
[sugarnspice] 4:46 pm: because you wanted to give her a treat or give her
something nice (like the coffee) and she assumes you'll give it to her
regardless?
[] 4:46 pm: ~she found out You thought she was nothing specatcular....so what
did You expect~....LOL
[[CJsHere] 4:46 pm: ahh, very good,, I brought her the coffee,, because it was something that I knew (consciously, or subconsciously) that it was something she liked,, or enjoyed, or brought her pleasure,,
[] 4:46 pm: ah, I see, u made her happiness your mission instead of your  own(like ashes said)
[nalani_AsJ] 4:46 pm: yep sugarnspice..
[nalani_AsJ] 4:47 pm: i agree with you there
[] 4:47 pm: I let this like,, take charge of the relationship?
[] 4:47 pm: yes, spice, hit it on the head,
[sugarnspice] 4:47 pm: thank you Sir :)
[] 4:47 pm: now,, what happens if you do something like this, day after day for
months before you realize what you're doing?
[nalani_AsJ] 4:47 pm: LOL laughs at fire's comment
[meira_SV] 4:48 pm: erm...then You're serving her instead of her serving You :)
[] 4:48 pm: she expects it as her due..
[darkorchid66] 4:48 pm: it becomes expected
[sugarnspice] 4:48 pm: you've let the sub think that she'll be rewarded all the
time no matter if chores aren't done?
[] 4:48 pm: oiy vey,, You got a problem,, yet so subtle, neither of you realized
it was happening, but, oh, did you reinforce it,
[darkorchid66] 4:48 pm: part of routine
[[CJsHere] 4:48 pm: nods to ashes and orchid,
[CJsHere] 4:49 pm: but, now let's take another spin on this,,,
[eira_SV] 4:49 pm: would a "good" sub allow that to happen? i mean...
[meira_SV] 4:49 pm: wouldn't she start to feel weird about what was happening
and speak up?
[[CJsHere] 4:49 pm: who's My skinniest girl in here? anyone under 100pounds?
[] 4:49 pm: alani
[darkorchid66] 4:49 pm: not in this life time lol
[nalani_AsJ] 4:49 pm: no i am not .. close though
[] 4:49 pm: not even close
[] 4:49 pm: as I said meira,,, perhaps neither of them recognized this?
[] 4:49 pm: lol
[] 4:50 pm: toothpick comes to mind hun...lol
[nalani_AsJ] 4:50 pm: haha ya i guess fire
[nalani_AsJ] 4:50 pm: giggles,
[] 4:50 pm: okay, so we'll pick on skinny this time,,
[darkorchid66] 4:50 pm: and meira she might of felt that he was doing this to
show her that he was pleased by her,,she is kinda ordinalry
[] 4:51 pm: <-----nothing spectacular....and not skinny enough....a girl could
get a complex
[[CJsHere] 4:51 pm: I get the girl, see she's really skinny,, we'll say, to the
extreme,, let's put her height weight at 5' 4",  85 pounds (again, a real example)
[eira_SV] 4:51 pm: fire: aww :( you're wonderful how you are.
[] 4:51 pm: laughs w/fire: ur great the way you are
[] 4:51 pm: ;)
[[CJsHere] 4:51 pm: so, in My Domly way,, I decide that one thing I want to do with the girl is a nightly bowl of ice cream,,
[darkorchid66] 4:52 pm: uh oh...

[] 4:52 pm: oh mercy
[[CJsHere] 4:52 pm: so each night, I make sure she has her ice cream.
[CJsHere] 4:53 pm: hmm,, rain or shine,, good or bad ,, she has her ice cream???
[CJsHere] 4:53 pm: wait a moment,, what is happening there?
[eira_SV] 4:54 pm: ice cream should maybe be more of a "treat"?...plus she's
not getting "healthy" calories..so once she starts putting weight on...she
mmight gain too much
[darkorchid66] 4:54 pm: treats every night behavior not considered and probably a good 50 pounds more...
[] 4:54 pm: and what if,, what if you start the ritual by saying,,, "My girl,
because you're special to Me, and because I want to work on your weight issue,,
II will get this for us each night as we prepare for bed,,,,,,, "...
[CJsHere] 4:55 pm: oh gawd,, see where this is going?
[darkorchid66] 4:55 pm: routine and expected

[] 4:55 pm: agrees with orchid agian
[meira_SV] 4:55 pm: so should a slave never expect nice things?
[darkorchid66] 4:55 pm: expect no...
[[CJsHere] 4:55 pm: routine, expected, and guess what,, Dom is knowingly doing it,,
[CJsHere] 4:56 pm: but wait,, what about the word "special" in there?
[CJsHere] 4:56 pm: maybe it isn't topping from the bottom,
[] 4:57 pm: would that be bottoming from the top???

[] 4:57 pm: what about a married couple,, that decides to enjoy the lifestyle,,
but, before they do, they make up their list of limits, exceptions, etc.. and
this is one of the items they include?
[] 4:57 pm: how many have heard the expression never go to bed mad,,, a
goodnight kiss first?
[] 4:58 pm: raises hand
[] 4:58 pm: wow,,,, that can be real topping from the bottom,,,,
[] 4:58 pm: but,,, yet, we still do it...
[meira_SV] 4:59 pm: confuses
[] 4:59 pm: that's one of those things that people will tell you that "love"
ccan get in the way of a D/s relationship,,
[] 4:59 pm: :huh

 [meira_SV] 4:59 pm: how is not going to bed mad, topping from the bottom?
[darkorchid66] 4:59 pm: yes but it is a small show of affection at the end of
the day and we never do know if our last day
[] 5:00 pm: nods, I agree orchid,,
[] 5:00 pm: but, can you see how it can get in the way?
[] 5:00 pm: I'm not saying don't do it,, I'm just saying, be aware of the
implications of things like that,,
[] 5:01 pm: the ice cream can be the same type of scenario,
[] 5:01 pm: and you have to watch where it ends.
[] 5:02 pm: or, where it leads I should say,
[] 5:02 pm: does that make any sense?
[] 5:03 pm: yes
[darkorchid66] 5:03 pm: course i am the wenchy one that won't go to bed if i am
mad...unless it is forced
[] 5:04 pm: chuckles at orchid
[] 5:04 pm: a few moments ago, Apheonix made the comment about "bottoming from
the Top",, yes, that is also something that can be easily gotten into.
[darkorchid66] 5:04 pm: hey ashes i am honest
[] 5:04 pm: chuckles.
[darkorchid66] 5:05 pm: what honesty is good trait in sub...
[CJsHere] 5:06 pm: okay,, let's hear the questions everyone has about Topping from the Bottom, I know there are a lot of them, so speak up.
[] 5:07 pm: waits, listens.
[meira_SV] 5:07 pm: is sorta confused so she doesn't have any intelligent
questions
[] 5:08 pm: chuckles, , seems I've been getting good at confusing people.
[] 5:09 pm: Yes Sir
[meira_SV] 5:09 pm: doubts it was You Sir...other subs in the room seem to be
understanding just fine :)
[[CJsHere] 5:09 pm: okay, let's see if I can clear this up, clear as mud,
[CJsHere] 5:10 pm: Topping from the bottom refers to a situation that the bottom
(sub/slave) attempts to alter, manipulate, prevent or incur an action or response from the Top (Dom/Master).
[[meira_SV] 5:10 pm: understands that much..thank You.
[CJsHere] 5:11 pm: It's important to remember that while usually, yes, it's a conscious action on the part of the sub/slave, yes, it can be an unconscious action,, and no, the Dom/Master may not even realize it is happening,
[CJsHere] 5:12 pm: It's also important to remember, Topping from the bottom will almost always start to break down trust, respect,,

[CJsHere] 5:13 pm: if it's an intentional attempt to Top from the bottom, it's also
something that will jeopardize the girls honor..
[eira_SV] 5:13 pm: if a girl doesn't know she's doing it...will a Dom tell her
so she can correct it?
[] 5:13 pm: I would certainly hope so meira.
[] 5:13 pm: <---thinks it starts with the small things.....and can grow into
changing the whole lifestyle arrangement agreed on initially
[[CJsHere] 5:14 pm: very true fire.
[CJsHere] 5:14 pm: things that break up or ruin a D/s relationship don't usually happen bang,, all at once,, it's usually just a subtle small thing here, small thing
there,, that adds up to one heck of a big bang.

[] 5:16 pm: if you give that some thought, you'll find it to be quite true
[] 5:17 pm: <---agrees
[meira_SV] 5:17 pm: but in a healthy relationship..the Dom would let the girl
know if she were messing up...and where things stood...er...wouldn't He?
[CJsHere] 5:17 pm: you mean, they'd "communicate"?
[] 5:17 pm: ~communication conerstone again~
[meira_SV] 5:17 pm: that.."c" word...yeah...
[] 5:17 pm: uh huh,,
[[CJsHere] 5:19 pm: it's that magical D/s Compass,, anyone seen that page on the Asj site?
[CJsHere] 5:19 pm: if not, when you get bored, spend some time and read it,
[CJsHere] 5:20 pm: okay, we'll wrap this up.. any other questions, comments?

 

 

 

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