A submissives journey
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CJ April 22,, 2002
ÇJ_ .. looks down, reaches into My Dom
willow_n_Gurdayal : waiting
ÇJ_ hmm, what's this,,,,,,
pulls out a piece of paper, begins to read,,,,,
ÇJ_ a gentle smile on My face,,, yep, I
vonnie807777 peeks over His shoulder
vonnie807777 : whatcha got?
ÇJ_ very interesting,,,,,
vonnie807777 : read it to me CJ
leans over shoulder
ÇJ_ it's an old BDSM checklist,,,,,
ever seen one before?
vonnie807777 : i did one the other day
vonnie807777 : yours actually
ÇJ_ : some
interesting things on those checklists..
vonnie807777 : my um..soon to be Dom got something of a
kick out of it
a lot of things i didn't know
vonnie807777 : didnt know what half of it was
ÇJ_ : did
you figure out what those things were?
vonnie807777 : boot worship....took it literally
vonnie807777 : aint worshippin no ones dirty boots
them up Sir
vonnie807777 : i just asked a zillion questions
still stuck on what is vanilla
vonnie807777 : took us probably 5 hours to go through
ÇJ_ : so
what is boot worship vonnie?
vonnie807777 : pwhat is vanilla....to my knowledge just
a boring old regular relationship
with CJ about boot worship
vonnie807777 : hey you said no picking on!
ÇJ_ : nope,
not picking on, but,, you said you found out what it was,,
ÇJ_ : see,
figured I might learn something,
vonnie807777 sticks her tongue out at CJ
ÇJ_ : waits
to listen to vonnie (as I stall for a moment waiting for aly to come
vonnie807777 : well in your little room it says foot
vonnie807777 : that i can deal with
vonnie807777 : no boots
ÇJ_ : okay,
so what is foot worship?
vonnie807777 : girly feet
sshhh....sits quiet in the corner
vonnie807777 : not quite sure on the distinction
vonnie807777 : thats why im in subby class
vonnie807777 : to absorb your knowledge Sir CJ
ÇJ_ : okay,,
we'll come back to that in a moment,, don't let Me forget to,, but,, I
think you've made My point that I'll go with this evening,
vonnie807777 : i dont think aly is commin
vonnie807777 : hi ya aly
ÇJ_ : I
find a lot of times that people that are new to this lifestyle, both
Dom's and subs often misunderstand what something is all about..
willow_n_Gurdayal : nods
vonnie807777 : thank god
ÇJ_ : it's
really easy to do, especially when different people have different
definitions for things.
times I'll see someone try to fill out a BDSM checklist, and they won't
have a clue what it is, or what it entails, yet they'll list that they
do, or don't like the item on the list.
have any ideas where you can go to find out what something is?
ÇJ_ : or
should I say, where you "should" go to find out what it is?
ÇJ_ : to
your Dom,, anywhere else?
vonnie807777 : welcome to class
are sites that have d/s dictionery's
ÇJ_ : the
best source, is the one your filling out the BDSM checklist for.....
ÇJ_ : usually
if He doesn't know either Sir?
ÇJ_ : that
way, you can make sure that you have their definition of what the term
what if your Dom is no more experienced than you are?
are a lot of good sources around,,
ÇJ_ : yes,
the Asj website has a page on terms and definitions,
ÇJ_ : there
are also some pretty good websites such as the Deviants Dictionary,,
will give you a pretty good listing of terms and definitions,,,
i raise a question?
ÇJ_ : you'll
also find sites like http://www.sexuality.org can really help,
ÇJ_ : yes
wolf, ask away..
you and your Dom have gone thru the checklist....and you know the
meaning of a certain thing...but its something neither of you have done
but want to try....where do we find out how to do it..not just a
depends on what it is wolf.. I might not give the same answer for
ÇJ_ : but,
it's a very good question,
ÇJ_ : want
to try to answer it for yourself?
vonnie807777 : what you wantin to do wolf?
ÇJ_ : where
do you think you would go?
example,, sure,, let's take abrasion ..
ÇJ_ : that's
usually up near the top of a list,,
ÇJ_ : well,
the first thing, if I had never done it, and it was something I wanted
to try, I'd have to try and check two or three sources, see if they all
had the same definition,
it was me i believe that i would go to someone (probably here in this
community) that i trust and might no how safely to do that Sir
vonnie807777 : i agree with aly on this
ÇJ_ : then
I might want to check a couple of sites, perhaps Asj,, maybe
sexuality.org, and castlerealm,, sites that I was familiar with and
vonnie807777 : i would want to talk to someone who had
vonnie807777 : rather than read
I'd suggest reading first,,
ÇJ_ : if
you read a bit about it first, then you'll find yourself with a bit of
the basices,, will give you an idea of what to ask questions about..
°šhê¤wô£f° : ok....what about something medical...say
like..oxygen deprevation or breath play or what ever you want to cal it
ÇJ_ : then,,
after I read it,, then I'd try to talk to others, preferably people that
I knew and trusted,, I would ask their opinions and thoughts about it,,
vonnie807777 : has anyone here ever played with breath
like breath control, that's a good example of how I said different
things on the list would give you different answers..
control is something that you can get seriously hurt with, dead even, if
you do it wrong,,
but am interested in it,, but hav to be careful as i cannot breath
normally out of my nose
ÇJ_ : that's
something that I would still tell you to read about, and talk to others
vonnie807777 looks up willows nose
vonnie807777 : whats wrong with it?
broken a couple of times
ÇJ_ : it
is also something that I wouldn't suggest you tried on your own as a
novice, that's something you want someone with some experience to teach
you about, in person, not online,
i did not know that Sir
i will never meet anyone who has experience CJ...im on my own here
ÇJ_ : breath
control can be dangerous,,, and different things for different people..
what if the girl has asthma, what are the possible considerations,,
ÇJ_ : then
in all seriousness wolf, stay away from it,,, one of these days, you'll
find someone with the experience to show you.
nothing else, wait for a munch in your area, I'll demonstrate it to
ÇJ_ : understand
again, there is a difference between breath control and asphyxiation
ÇJ_ : although
most dont think so,,
ÇJ_ : generally,
breath control isn't all that dangerous.. whereas asphyxiation
ÇJ_ : so,
for purpose of talking here, I always lump the two together,, I'd rather
people were overly cautious then to get themselves in trouble.
important thing to understand, and if you get nothing else from this,,
understand that different people have different definitions for things,,
i am a little confused?
how so aly?
¤ålýgïrl¤ : what if a Dom has a differnt definition from
what i do on something on the limit list?
ÇJ_ : that's
easy,, then you both need to agree on a definition, perhaps suddenly
you'lll find yourself with two new definitions since both of your
definitions might be different than mine,,
i put love to do that or would like to try and it ends up being
ÇJ_ : just
becasue a definition is different, doesn't mean it's wrong,
ÇJ_ : that's
why I am telling you, you can't just arbitrarily check off things on a
ÇJ_ : they
actually need to be discussed a bit,,
vonnie807777 : well then talk about it.............
have to make sure what you say is what you mean,,
ÇJ_ : but,,
again, that brings up a point,,,,,,
has to be very careful what she asks for
ok i understand a little better now
vonnie807777 : my list.well i think i answered as the
list required on like two things.everything else i made up my own
ÇJ_ : I
don't care what you put on your checklist, there is always such a thing
as "stop".. this ain't what I expected/wanted,,
ok ok....so when you go thru the list...do it together..not seperate
then hand it in like homework??
ÇJ_ : makes
sense doesn't it wolf?
vonnie807777 : i did mine and handed it in
vonnie807777 : then we went over it
vonnie807777 : but i asked him to do it to........
vonnie807777 : it was a lot of fun actually
if you talk about it too much...wont it be boring??
ÇJ_ : yes,
you should go thru it together,, yes, you can go over it,, mark your
"initial" responses,, perhaps jot down questions about the
item that you might have,,
can never talk about it too much
it's a bit more organized and your ready to talk about what the
different things are.
had a blst.not boring at all
vonnie807777 : and it did take hours........
ÇJ_ : talk,
doesn't necessarily translate to communication,
when you communicate, you have to talk as well as listen,,
ÇJ_ : a
parrot can talk, doesn't mean anyone understands it, nor does the parrot
understand the answers back to him,,
ÇJ_ : does
that make sense?
that makes sense
ÇJ_ : what
is a BDSM checklist for?
makes a lot of sensse CJ Sir
ÇJ_ : anyone
that you and your Dom can set limits
understand limits of all parties involved
ÇJ_ : close,
but not quite,,
setting limits...also giving ideas of things you may not have thought of
that Y/you and Y/your partner knows Y/your interests..
starting point for conversation....sometimes its hard to get the convo
You can communicate about them
nothing more than a communication tool!
No, your limits are not governed by a BDSM checklist, never
should be,, but,, it's a tool you can use to open up communication with
a Dom, or sub, start to talk,, it also serves as a checklist of things
ÇJ_ : can
talk about, or should remember to talk about.
ÇJ_ : every
item on a BDSM checklist does NOT have to be part of your relationship.
ÇJ_ : don't
ever let anyone tell you otherwise.
is glad of that
¤ålýgïrl¤ : also glad of that
ÇJ_ : even
after you've filled one out, it doesn't mean you are commited to it,,
ÇJ_ : okay,,
I think we've pounded this one a bit,,
but, any other questions about what a BDSM checklist is for, and
how it's used?
ÇJ_ : then it's test time,,
vonnie807777 looks at Cj
vonnie807777 : hopes hes kidding
whips out her subbie pencil
ÇJ_ : question
# 1... how often should you do, or complete a BDSM
¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé going to listen
as she missed some
vonnie807777 : until i understood everything on it
do one evry 4 months Sir
your with a new Dom...or you want to change your limits
many times as needed to understand everything and could change
ÇJ_ a) just
everyday c) when you feel like it d)
frequently, especially when you are new in a relationship
vonnie807777 : D
vonnie807777 : or B
its multiple guess?? i rule on these
of those answers,, I'd have to say d....
but,,, there is nothing that says you couldn't or shouldn’t do it
vonnie807777 smiles at CJ
ÇJ_ : sometimes
you may only want to work on a little bit of it each day as you get to
know your Dom more and more..
shakes head in agreement
ÇJ_ when you do your BDSM checklist,, who
should you go through it with? (or go over it with)
vonnie807777 : my Dom
your Dom Sir
vonnie807777 : my momma wouldnt like it
mine vonnie sis..
ÇJ_ a) your
Dom b) your
subbie c) anyone
involved in the relationship,,,
d) your Mentor e
) your Mother f) all but your mother
mom would freak out
vonnie807777 : f
whispers hi aly sis
ÇJ_ : dont'
forget! If you have a
mentor, you should go over the list with your Mentor, even before you go
over it with your Dom,,,
smiles at subbie
ÇJ_ : if
it's a poly relationship, then all members of the realtionship should
go over a checklist!
vonnie807777 : why though? isnt my Dom the most
important as the list is for Him?
ÇJ_ : IF
you have a Mentor,, you need to be using that Mentor for their advice,,
if you don't,then why do you have a Mentor in the first place?
Can a BDSM checklist, and your answers on the list change? If so, how often,, (and this one is an essay question)
waits for the answers
answers can change as often as i like
vonnie807777 : is that long enough?
my answers can change as often as they feel like.....depending on my
¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : your
list can change daily...your likes and dislikes can change frequently..
ÇJ_ : on
your mood willow?
is not etched in stone..
does mood have to do with it?
vonnie807777 : everything CJ
agree with vonnie
ÇJ_ : actually,
you bring up a good point,,,
does not matter how often..as long as both parties are in agreement or
Sir,, for me it has a lot to do with it.......my life runs around how i
a bdsm list can change, very often in fact once you get to know your Dom
more and learn more to trust Him then you may want to change and try new
thing with Him.
ÇJ_ : No,
mood should NOT affect your answers on your checklist,,
¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : I
agree as well .. CJ Sir is definately a mentor..
is my mood
ÇJ_ : if
it is only something you will do when you are in a certain mood, then
you need to check that off as a NO,,
ÇJ_ : yes,
you need to discuss that one a bit with your Dom,,
really, i just have been struggling with this darn list for a few days
is hard aly........
my mood changes my limits
if you are in a mood or not in a mood...wouldnt that be something you
discussed before you would scene anyways?
if it becomes a limit because of your MOOD,, hey,, not all Dom's are
psychic,, and sometimes your mood ring might not be working,,
why you discuss things before youplay
my Master knows my mood
vonnie807777 : well the only thing that really changes
with my mood is public humiliation.......
vonnie807777 : somedays i might be up for it
i am feeling adventorous....and i want to try new things....sometimes
vonnie807777 : some days not so much
ÇJ_ : agreed,,
willow,, but, again,, talking generalities, and there are exceptions
to every rule,,
i agree with You CJ Sir, He is not a psychic
°šhê¤wô£f° : sometimes when i am frusttrated...or really
pissed....i take alot more pain than other times...mood changes
ÇJ_ : again,,
remember the purpose of a BDSM checklist,, it is a communication tool..
it is not a list that casts it in stone what you will or will not do..
ÇJ_ when you find a BDSM checklist and decide
to use the list,, can you ad things?
how about take things off? (no,
I don't mean take off your clothes)
vonnie807777 : yes you can......
vonnie807777 : whatever works for the relationship
you can always ad things,, but why would you want to take something off?
ÇJ_ : shouldn't
you be open and discuss those things that are on the list?
if you are against it, or afraid of it,, it won't go away and not be
there just because you took it off the list,,
vonnie807777 : if its something neither of us are
into...then why bother with it?
it there,, discuss it,,
surprised myself on what i thought I wouldnt like..
do you know you aren't into it if it's not there and you haven't talked
but if both are in agreement to take it off i would think that would be
both of You agrre that neither of y/you want to do those things isn't it
alright to take them off?
vonnie807777 : okay CJ wins
ÇJ_ : then
if you both agree to take it off, what have you just done?
vonnie807777 : set a limit
ÇJ_ : you
had it there to discuss it, so essentially, you left it on, didn't you..
some hard limits are way hard...no way never gonna change...why not take
question wolf, let Me give you an example,,
ÇJ_ : I
know you don't like scat... so....
ÇJ_ : lets
say I put a collar on you,, then 6 months from now one day I say okay
wolfie,, break out the scat,,,,,,,
ÇJ_ : or,,
aint gonna happen
ÇJ_ : remember
ÇJ_ : I
remember when you didn't want anything to do with a whip,, now,, I
happen to know that you and hubbie tend to enjoy that don't you..
well, if you took it off the list,, now as things change,, you forget to
ÇJ_ : heck,
you might not have ever met the whip because both of you were hesitant
to put it on the list,
the whip was something i feared....scat is something i k now will never
leave it there,, when you go back thru the list, you can reaffirm your
feelings or thoughts about something,
one is going to poop on me
ÇJ_ : never
say never wolf,, (although in the case of scat, I tend to agree with
see your point....
angeley a/s/l pls
ÇJ_ : does
that make sense wolf?
as time goes by....and its always over looked...doesnt it make more
sense to just remove it?
ÇJ_ : why
would you "overlook it".. why not discuss it?
ÇJ_ : again,,
remember what the list is for,, a BDSM checklist
is a communication tool, you remove too many things, what are you
doing, you're closing off communication,
would always be the same...."wanna do scat?"
" are you insane?"
and that would be it
: open honest discussion of both likes and dislikes is very
¤süb°l¡m¡ñål•sübbìé : that
is true CJ Sir..
see your point CJ....nothing should be taken off....
no, wolf, your answer or question wouldn't be,, "wanna do
scat",,, but it might be,, "honey, I'm still dead set against
Scat,, what are you feelings aobut this?
ÇJ_ come on in, we're talking about BDSM
checklists and what they are used for, how to use them,,
let's recap on what we've talked about..
1.. BDSM checklist is a communications tool..
it's a tool used to open communications..
: we find that each filling out the same checklist and then
comparing creates hours of discussion topics
It's important that everyone in the relationship, Dom and sub (or
subs, slave, slaves) uses the list,,
3. yes, if you have a
mentor, it's perfectly appropriate to go over that list with your
: It is important that you be honest and open when you fill it
: they also help both Dom and sub think about terms and
meanings in the same way, so there is no misunderstanding later on
4. a BDSM checklist
is not cast in stone, your answers, likes, dislikes can change, and you
should do your checklist more than once over time,,
: is not all absed on communication, expectations and respect?
: based even
¤little_pet¤«Chance» : it is based on respect , trust , communication, honesty and
5. Definitions of terms on
a BDSM checklist might not mean the same for everyone, make sure you go
over those terms with everyone in the relationship to insure you ALL
understand what they mean,,,
6. Don't limit your
checklist, ,you can always ad more things to your list, even as your
At this point, the conversation tended to drift off to other topics and
general chat. Thank you to all that participated in this discussion.
Did you know, the Asj Community hosts ‘Lifestyle Classes and Discussions’ here online every Sunday evening at 9:00 pm Eastern Time. The Classes and Discussions are open to all and Free to attend. Visit our Members Only Pages for more information, or click any of our “ask live” icons to ask for more information.
Questions about our site? Click the ask live icon to chat live or leave a message with our site host. CJ isn't always available, but generally you can find Him here from about 8:30 - 11:00 pm Eastern time. Your questions about the site, the Asj community or just about the lifestyle in general are always welcome. If nothing else, take a moment and tell us what you think of this feature!
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