A submissives journey




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Chapter 3
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Chapter 4
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Chapter 5

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Chapter 6





Chapter 7

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Chapter 8
Members share their thoughts





Chapter 9

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Chapter 10
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Chapter 11
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Chapter 12
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Chapter 13
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BDSM Checklists



    Did you know, the Asj Community hosts Lifestyle Classes and Discussions here online every Sunday and Wednesday evening at 9:00 pm Eastern Time.  The Classes and Discussions are open to all and Free to attend.  Visit our Members Only Pages for more information, or click any of our ask live icons to ask for more information.



                                                            CJ  April 22,,  2002



     J_ .. looks down, reaches into My Dom Bag,,,,,,,,,

     hwf giggles

     willow_n_Gurdayal : waiting to learn

     vonnie807777 running

     J_ hmm, what's this,,,,,,   pulls out a piece of paper, begins to read,,,,,

     J_ a gentle smile on My face,,, yep, I remember this,,,,,

     vonnie807777 peeks over His shoulder

     vonnie807777 : whatcha got?

     J_ very interesting,,,,,

     vonnie807777 : read it to me CJ

     willow_n_Gurdayal : curious....also leans over shoulder

     J_ it's an old BDSM checklist,,,,,  ever seen one before?

     vonnie807777 : i did one the other day

     vonnie807777 : yours actually

     willow_n_Gurdayal : yes Sir

     J_ : some interesting things on those checklists..

     vonnie807777 : my um..soon to be Dom got something of a kick out of it

     willow_n_Gurdayal : learned a lot of things i didn't know

     vonnie807777 : didnt know what half of it was

     J_ : did you figure out what those things were?

     vonnie807777 : boot worship....took it literally

     vonnie807777 : aint worshippin no ones dirty boots

     willow_n_Gurdayal : looked them up Sir

     willow_n_Gurdayal : lol

     vonnie807777 : i just asked a zillion questions

     willow_n_Gurdayal : am still stuck on what is vanilla

     vonnie807777 : took us probably 5 hours to go through the thing

     J_ : so what is boot worship vonnie?

     J_ listens..

     vonnie807777 : pwhat is vanilla....to my knowledge just a boring old regular relationship

     willow_n_Gurdayal : listens with CJ about boot worship

     vonnie807777 : hey you said no picking on!

     J_ : nope, not picking on, but,, you said you found out what it was,,

     J_ : see, figured I might learn something,

     vonnie807777 sticks her tongue out at CJ

     J_ : waits to listen to vonnie (as I stall for a moment waiting for aly to come back in)

     vonnie807777 : well in your little room it says foot worship.............

     vonnie807777 : that i can deal with

     vonnie807777 : no boots

     J_ : okay, so what is foot worship?

     vonnie807777 : girly feet

     willow_n_Gurdayal : ?

     hwf sshhh....sits quiet in the corner

     vonnie807777 : not quite sure on the distinction actually

     vonnie807777 : thats why im in subby class

     J_ : chuckles..

     vonnie807777 : to absorb your knowledge Sir CJ

     J_ : okay,, we'll come back to that in a moment,, don't let Me forget to,, but,, I think you've made My point that I'll go with this evening,


     vonnie807777 : i dont think aly is commin

     vonnie807777 : hi ya aly

     hwf : hey aly

     willow_n_Gurdayal : wb aly sis

     lgrl : smiles hello vonnie

     lgrl : ty willow

     J_ : I find a lot of times that people that are new to this lifestyle, both Dom's and subs often misunderstand what something is all about..

     willow_n_Gurdayal : nods

     vonnie807777 : thank god

     J_ : it's really easy to do, especially when different people have different definitions for things.

     lgrl smiles

     J_ : Many times I'll see someone try to fill out a BDSM checklist, and they won't have a clue what it is, or what it entails, yet they'll list that they do, or don't like the item on the list.

     J_ : anyone have any ideas where you can go to find out what something is?

     J_ : or should I say, where you "should" go to find out what it is?

     lgrl : to your Dom

     J_ : to your Dom,, anywhere else?

     lgrl : devient definitions list

     vonnie807777 : welcome to class

     hwf grins....

     willow_n_Gurdayal : there are sites that have d/s dictionery's

     J_ : the best source, is the one your filling out the BDSM checklist for.....

     J_ : usually your Dom,,,,

     willow_n_Gurdayal : and if He doesn't know either Sir?

     J_ : that way, you can make sure that you have their definition of what the term means,

     hwf : but what if your Dom is no more experienced than you are?

     J_ : there are a lot of good sources around,,

     J_ : yes, the Asj website has a page on terms and definitions,

     J_ : there are also some pretty good websites such as the Deviants Dictionary,,

     J_ : that will give you a pretty good listing of terms and definitions,,,

     hwf : may i raise a question?

     J_ : you'll also find sites like http://www.sexuality.org can really help,

     J_ : yes wolf, ask away..

     hwf : ok..so you and your Dom have gone thru the checklist....and you know the meaning of a certain thing...but its something neither of you have done but want to try....where do we find out how to do it..not just a definition???

     willow_n_Gurdayal : good point sis

     J_ : that depends on what it is wolf.. I might not give the same answer for differnt things,

     J_ : but, it's a very good question,

     J_ : want to try to answer it for yourself?

     hwf : gimme some examples?

     vonnie807777 : what you wantin to do wolf?

     J_ : where do you think you would go?

     J_ : an example,, sure,, let's take abrasion ..

     J_ : that's usually up near the top of a list,,


     J_ : well, the first thing, if I had never done it, and it was something I wanted to try, I'd have to try and check two or three sources, see if they all had the same definition,

     lgrl : if it was me i believe that i would go to someone (probably here in this community) that i trust and might no how safely to do that Sir

     vonnie807777 : i agree with aly on this

     J_ : then I might want to check a couple of sites, perhaps Asj,, maybe sexuality.org, and castlerealm,, sites that I was familiar with and trusted,,

     vonnie807777 : i would want to talk to someone who had done it

     vonnie807777 : rather than read

     J_ : but,, I'd suggest reading first,,

     J_ : if you read a bit about it first, then you'll find yourself with a bit of the basices,, will give you an idea of what to ask questions about..

     hwf : ok....what about something medical...say like..oxygen deprevation or breath play or what ever you want to cal it

     J_ : then,, after I read it,, then I'd try to talk to others, preferably people that I knew and trusted,, I would ask their opinions and thoughts about it,,

     vonnie807777 : has anyone here ever played with breath control?

     J_ : something like breath control, that's a good example of how I said different things on the list would give you different answers..

     J_ : breath control is something that you can get seriously hurt with, dead even, if you do it wrong,,

     willow_n_Gurdayal : no, but am interested in it,, but hav to be careful as i cannot breath normally out of my nose

     J_ : that's something that I would still tell you to read about, and talk to others about,, BUT

     vonnie807777 looks up willows nose

     vonnie807777 : whats wrong with it?

     willow_n_Gurdayal : been broken a couple of times

     J_ : it is also something that I wouldn't suggest you tried on your own as a novice, that's something you want someone with some experience to teach you about, in person, not online,

     lgrl : ahh i did not know that Sir

     hwf : but i will never meet anyone who has experience CJ...im on my own here

     J_ : breath control can be dangerous,,, and different things for different people.. what if the girl has asthma, what are the possible considerations,,

     J_ : then in all seriousness wolf, stay away from it,,, one of these days, you'll find someone with the experience to show you.

     J_ : (if nothing else, wait for a munch in your area, I'll demonstrate it to you..)

     J_ : understand again, there is a difference between breath control and asphyxiation play,,,

     J_ : although most dont think so,,

     J_ : generally,  breath control isn't all that dangerous.. whereas asphyxiation can be,,

     J_ : so, for purpose of talking here, I always lump the two together,, I'd rather people were overly cautious then to get themselves in trouble.

     J_ : the important thing to understand, and if you get nothing else from this,, understand that different people have different definitions for things,,

     lgrl : now i am a little confused?

         J_ : confused, how so aly?

     willow_n_Gurdayal : why aly sis

     lgrl : ok here goes

     J_ : listens...

     lgrl : what if a Dom has a differnt definition from what i do on something on the limit list?

     J_ : that's easy,, then you both need to agree on a definition, perhaps suddenly you'lll find yourself with two new definitions since both of your definitions might be different than mine,,

     lgrl : so i put love to do that or would like to try and it ends up being dangerious

     J_ : just becasue a definition is different, doesn't mean it's wrong,

     J_ : that's why I am telling you, you can't just arbitrarily check off things on a checklist,

     J_ : they actually need to be discussed a bit,,

     vonnie807777 : well then talk about it.............

     J_ : you have to make sure what you say is what you mean,,

     J_ : but,,   again, that brings up a point,,,,,,

     willow_n_Gurdayal : < has to be very careful what she asks for

     lgrl : smiles ok i understand a little better now

     vonnie807777 : my list.well i think i answered as the list required on like two things.everything else i made up my own answers to

     J_ : I don't care what you put on your checklist, there is always such a thing as "stop".. this ain't what I expected/wanted,,

     hwf : ok ok ok....so when you go thru the list...do it together..not seperate then hand it in like homework??

     J_ : makes sense doesn't it wolf?

     vonnie807777 : i did mine and handed it in

     hwf : yep

     vonnie807777 : then we went over it

     vonnie807777 : but i asked him to do it to........

     vonnie807777 : it was a lot of fun actually

     hwf : but if you talk about it too much...wont it be boring??

     J_ : yes, you should go thru it together,, yes, you can go over it,, mark your "initial" responses,, perhaps jot down questions about the item that you might have,,

     willow_n_Gurdayal : you can never talk about it too much

     J_ : then,, it's a bit more organized and your ready to talk about what the different things are.

     vonnie807777 : we had a blst.not boring at all

     vonnie807777 : and it did take hours........

     J_ : talk, doesn't necessarily translate to communication,

     J_ : remember, when you communicate, you have to talk as well as listen,,

     J_ : a parrot can talk, doesn't mean anyone understands it, nor does the parrot understand the answers back to him,,

     J_ : does that make sense?

     lgrl : yes that makes sense

     J_ : what is a BDSM checklist for?

     willow_n_Gurdayal : it makes a lot of sensse CJ Sir

     J_ : anyone know?

     lgrl : so that you and your Dom can set limits

     SCeee_Ya : to understand limits of all parties involved

     J_ : close, but not quite,,

     hwf : for setting limits...also giving ideas of things you may not have thought of

     willow_n_Gurdayal : so that Y/you and Y/your partner knows Y/your interests..

     lgrl : safety

     hwf : a starting point for conversation....sometimes its hard to get the convo rolling

     willow_n_Gurdayal : and You can communicate about them

     J_ : it's nothing more than a communication tool!   No, your limits are not governed by a BDSM checklist, never should be,, but,, it's a tool you can use to open up communication with a Dom, or sub, start to talk,, it also serves as a checklist of things you

     J_ : can talk about, or should remember to talk about.

     J_ : every item on a BDSM checklist does NOT have to be part of your relationship.

     J_ : don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

     willow_n_Gurdayal : < is glad of that

     lgrl : also glad of that

     J_ : even after you've filled one out, it doesn't mean you are commited to it,,

     J_ : okay,, I think we've pounded this one a bit,,   but, any other questions about what a BDSM checklist is for, and how it's used?

     J_ : then it's test time,,

     sblmlsbb : okay..

     lgrl : oh no....

     vonnie807777 looks at Cj

     vonnie807777 : hopes hes kidding

     hwf whips out her subbie pencil

     J_ : question # 1...     how often should you do, or complete a BDSM checklist?

     sblmlsbb going to listen as she missed some

     vonnie807777 : until i understood everything on it

     willow_n_Gurdayal : i do one evry 4 months Sir

     hwf : anytime your with a new Dom...or you want to change your limits

     lgrl : as many times as needed to understand everything and could change

     J_ a)  just once,,,    b)  everyday        c) when you feel like it      d)  frequently, especially when you are new in a relationship

     sblmlsbb : d sir?

     lgrl : d

     vonnie807777 : D

     SCeee_Ya : D

     vonnie807777 : or B

     hwf : omg its multiple guess?? i rule on these

     willow_n_Gurdayal : definately d Sir

     hwf : D

     J_ : out of those answers,, I'd have to say d....  but,,,  there is nothing that says you couldn't or shouldnt do it everyday,,,

     vonnie807777 smiles at CJ

     J_ : sometimes you may only want to work on a little bit of it each day as you get to know your Dom more and more..

     sblmlsbb shakes head in agreement

     J_ when you do your BDSM checklist,, who should you go through it with? (or go over it with)

     lgrl smiles

     vonnie807777 : my Dom

     sblmlsbb : your Dom

     lgrl : my Dom

     hwf : you Mom

     hwf : Dom

     willow_n_Gurdayal : with your Dom Sir

     hwf : sorry

     sblmlsbb : lol she wolf

     vonnie807777 : my momma wouldnt like it

     sblmlsbb : nor mine vonnie sis..

     J_ a)  your Dom    b) your subbie   c) anyone involved in the relationship,,,    d) your Mentor    e ) your Mother    f) all but your mother

     hwf : my mom would freak out

     willow_n_Gurdayal : mine would'nt care

     vonnie807777 : f

     sblmlsbb : f

     lgrl : f

     hwf : F'

     sblmlsbb whispers hi aly sis

     SCeee_Ya : c

     J_ : dont' forget!  If you have a mentor, you should go over the list with your Mentor, even before you go over it with your Dom,,,

     lgrl smiles at subbie

     J_ : if it's a poly relationship, then all members of the realtionship should go over a checklist!

     vonnie807777 : why though? isnt my Dom the most important as the list is for Him?

     J_ : IF you have a Mentor,, you need to be using that Mentor for their advice,, if you don't,then why do you have a Mentor in the first place?

     J_ Can a BDSM checklist, and your answers on the list change?  If so, how often,, (and this one is an essay question)  waits for the answers

     vonnie807777 : my answers can change as often as i like

     vonnie807777 : is that long enough?

     willow_n_Gurdayal : yes, my answers can change as often as they feel like.....depending on my mood

     sblmlsbb : your list can change daily...your likes and dislikes can change frequently..

     J_ : on your mood willow?

     sblmlsbb : it is not etched in stone..

     J_ : what does mood have to do with it?

     vonnie807777 : everything CJ

     hwf : i agree with vonnie

     J_ : actually, you bring up a good point,,,

     sblmlsbb : it does not matter how often..as long as both parties are in agreement or understanding

     willow_n_Gurdayal : yes, Sir,, for me it has a lot to do with it.......my life runs around how i feel

     lgrl : yes a bdsm list can change, very often in fact once you get to know your Dom more and learn more to trust Him then you may want to change and try new thing with Him.

     J_ : No, mood should NOT affect your answers on your checklist,,

     sblmlsbb : I agree as well .. CJ Sir is definately a mentor..

     willow_n_Gurdayal : wich is my mood

     J_ : if it is only something you will do when you are in a certain mood, then you need to check that off as a NO,,

     hwf : wait....

     J_ : yes, you need to discuss that one a bit with your Dom,,

     lgrl : not really, i just have been struggling with this darn list for a few days now. lol

     vonnie807777 : it is hard aly........

     hwf : sometimes my mood changes my limits

     sblmlsbb : well if you are in a mood or not in a mood...wouldnt that be something you discussed before you would scene anyways?

     J_ : but,, if it becomes a limit because of your MOOD,, hey,, not all Dom's are psychic,, and sometimes your mood ring might not be working,,

     hwf : thats why you discuss things before youplay

     willow_n_Gurdayal : fortunately, my Master knows my mood

     vonnie807777 : well the only thing that really changes with my mood is public humiliation.......

     vonnie807777 : somedays i might be up for it

     hwf : sometimes i am feeling adventorous....and i want to try new things....sometimes not

     vonnie807777 : some days not so much

     J_ : agreed,, willow,,  but, again,, talking generalities, and there are exceptions to every rule,,

     willow_n_Gurdayal : but i agree with You CJ Sir, He is not a psychic

     hwf : sometimes when i am frusttrated...or really pissed....i take alot more pain than other times...mood changes everything

     J_ : again,, remember the purpose of a BDSM checklist,, it is a communication tool.. it is not a list that casts it in stone what you will or will not do..

     sblmlsbb : yes CJ Sir..

     willow_n_Gurdayal : yes Sir

     lgrl : yes Sir

     J_ when you find a BDSM checklist and decide to use the list,, can you ad things?  how about take things off?  (no, I don't mean take off your clothes)

     vonnie807777 : yes you can......

     lgrl smiles

     willow_n_Gurdayal : yes to both

     vonnie807777 : whatever works for the relationship

     lgrl : yes to both

     hwf : yes and yes

     sblmlsbb : yes Sir..to both

     J_ : yes, you can always ad things,, but why would you want to take something off?

     J_ : shouldn't you be open and discuss those things that are on the list?

     hwf : nope

     sblmlsbb : absolutely Sir..

     J_ : even if you are against it, or afraid of it,, it won't go away and not be there just because you took it off the list,,

     vonnie807777 : if its something neither of us are into...then why bother with it?

     J_ : leave it there,, discuss it,,

     sblmlsbb : have surprised myself on what i thought I wouldnt like..

     J_ : how do you know you aren't into it if it's not there and you haven't talked about it?

     lgrl : yes but if both are in agreement to take it off i would think that would be ok Sir

     willow_n_Gurdayal : if both of You agrre that neither of y/you want to do those things isn't it alright to take them off?

     sblmlsbb : hello illicit..a/s/l pls

     vonnie807777 : okay CJ wins

     J_ : then if you both agree to take it off, what have you just done?

     vonnie807777 : set a limit

     lgrl : discussed it...

     sblmlsbb : limited yourselves

     J_ : you had it there to discuss it, so essentially, you left it on, didn't you..

     hwf : but some hard limits are way hard...no way never gonna change...why not take them off?

     J_ : good question wolf, let Me give you an example,,

     J_ : I know you don't like scat...   so....

     sblmlsbb : ewww...

     J_ : lets say I put a collar on you,, then 6 months from now one day I say okay wolfie,, break out the scat,,,,,,,

     J_ : or,, another example,,

     hwf : it aint gonna happen

     J_ : remember that whip?

     J_ : I remember when you didn't want anything to do with a whip,, now,, I happen to know that you and hubbie tend to enjoy that don't you..

     hwf : yes

     J_ : hmm well, if you took it off the list,, now as things change,, you forget to discuss it,,

     J_ : heck, you might not have ever met the whip because both of you were hesitant to put it on the list,

     hwf : but the whip was something i feared....scat is something i k now will never happen

     J_ : no, leave it there,, when you go back thru the list, you can reaffirm your feelings or thoughts about something,

     hwf : no one is going to poop on me

     sblmlsbb gags

     J_ : never say never wolf,, (although in the case of scat, I tend to agree with you)

     hwf : ok...i see your point....

     willow_n_Gurdayal : hello angel welcome

     sblmlsbb : hello angeley  a/s/l pls

     J_ : does that make sense wolf?

     hwf : but as time goes by....and its always over looked...doesnt it make more sense to just remove it?

     J_ : why would you "overlook it".. why not discuss it?

     J_ : again,, remember what the list is for,, a BDSM checklist  is a communication tool, you remove too many things, what are you doing, you're closing off communication,

     hwf : well.....it would always be the same...."wanna do scat?"  " are you insane?"  and that would be it

     Chance_101 : open honest discussion of both likes and dislikes is very important

     sblmlsbb : that is true CJ Sir..

     hwf : ok...i see your point CJ....nothing should be taken off....

     J_ no, wolf, your answer or question wouldn't be,, "wanna do scat",,, but it might be,, "honey, I'm still dead set against Scat,, what are you feelings aobut this?

     J_ come on in, we're talking about BDSM checklists and what they are used for, how to use them,,

     J_ : okay,,, let's recap on what we've talked about..

     J_ 1.. BDSM checklist is a communications tool..  it's a tool used to open communications..

     Chance_101 : we find that each filling out the same checklist and then comparing creates hours of discussion topics

     J_ 2..  It's important that everyone in the relationship, Dom and sub (or subs, slave, slaves) uses the list,,

         J_ 3.  yes, if you have a mentor, it's perfectly appropriate to go over that list with your Mentor,,

     little_petChance : It is important that you be honest and open when you fill it out

     Chance_101 : they also help both Dom and sub think about terms and meanings in the same way, so there is no misunderstanding later on

     J_ 4.   a BDSM checklist is not cast in stone, your answers, likes, dislikes can change, and you should do your checklist more than once over time,,

      sircybersation : is not all absed on communication, expectations and respect?

     sircybersation : based even

     little_petChance : it is based on respect , trust , communication, honesty and being open

     J_ 5.  Definitions of terms on a BDSM checklist might not mean the same for everyone, make sure you go over those terms with everyone in the relationship to insure you ALL understand what they mean,,,

     J_ 6.  Don't limit your checklist, ,you can always ad more things to your list, even as your relationship progresses..


 At this point, the conversation tended to drift off to other topics and

 general chat.  Thank you to all that participated in this discussion.






Did you know, the Asj Community hosts Lifestyle Classes and Discussions here online every Sunday evening at 9:00 pm Eastern Time.  The Classes and Discussions are open to all and Free to attend.  Visit our Members Only Pages for more information, or click any of our ask live icons to ask for more information.






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